StarCraft World
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: My.Yris on May 06, 2023, 06:42:24 pm
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I played during KoKaNee’s Era, but I never really saw the competition before because I was learning the game on US-East.
I’ve heard of Marine / HasH / HyDrA
I’m wondering who did you old people considered the best since most of you watched or played against them during the VGT Era.
Discuss Go Go Go!
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I’m from US-East DE- and )S( clan Era, so I don’t know shit about this game 😂
edit; my Protoss was very good before I quit the game for League of Legends and Maplestory private servers!
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Battlecheese was like when the first Korean came 2 scw
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Joe r u saying cheese was Korean? Luke was the whitest guy ever
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Battlecheese was like when the first Korean came 2 scw
I remember this name, dude had like 10K games lmao dedication 😂
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I said he was like the Koreans, ppl learned from him and the game grew
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https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV73MDrwRO6_fjKnaDSnWEmLWKRffdc_0
Playlist for you to enjoy while playing the same game :)
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Blizzard employees give me some names because FMP > Low Money 😝
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SC and BW are so different in strategies. SC had a much higher focus on macro and micro than tech. And in that department Marine was just something else man. Hard to compare todays players to that because the game is so different in BW but I'm sure if he had adapted he would have dominated BW aswell. That is without considering the koreans though, I think people like Brain would beat him.
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Omg ppl, read it slow so you understand.
In his time (battlecheese) people learned from his game play.
Like when rabbits whooped everyone.
Look at the question that is being asked, that’s why I threw his name out there.
Fuck
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Brain > Minchul > Shin > Mong > Lucky > Burger+byul > Gangnamlife+458!!!+Leebokgu+sanfrancisco > Rabbit+Doromi+J.H+Henessy+RyanTeacher+Scan+Levi > Question+Trisha > Cong+9Rin+Her+Hubble+Insung+3D.Style > Hydra > Kokanee > etc.
Note: Largely korean map experts except for Brain, Rabbit, Byul, J.H and Leebokgu who learned western map properly. Brain, Mong, Byul, Doromi(Tinkle), Levi(Hogil) and Scan are former or active professionals.
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I learned playing my childhood friend Fla)S(h who learned from Drug)S( / Tank)S(
I would love to see the competition nowadays and the BW strategies.
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Brain > Minchul > Shin > Mong > Lucky > Burger+byul > Gangnamlife+458!!!+Leebokgu+sanfrancisco > Rabbit+Doromi+J.H+Henessy+RyanTeacher+Scan+Levi > Question+Trisha > Cong+9Rin+Her+Hubble+Insung+3D.Style > Hydra > Kokanee > etc.
Note: Largely korean map experts except for Brain, Rabbit, Byul, J.H and Leebokgu who learned western map properly. Brain, Mong, Byul, Doromi(Tinkle), Levi(Hogil) and Scan are former or active professionals.
I disagree 100% you put 50 fuckjbg Koreans ahead of cole and Tom. Do you know what > symbol means? Lol I personally wrecked rabbit a few times.. what was it season 28?! Like if everyone was here and put in a league you don’t think Tom or cole wouldn’t be top 5?? At their best come on now.. get off the Korean nuts bro
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I wanna come back and see what my record would be vs KoKaNee since it’s 1-1 in OG 😂
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Brain > Minchul > Shin > Mong > Lucky > Burger+byul > Gangnamlife+458!!!+Leebokgu+sanfrancisco > Rabbit+Doromi+J.H+Henessy+RyanTeacher+Scan+Levi > Question+Trisha > Cong+9Rin+Her+Hubble+Insung+3D.Style > Hydra > Kokanee > etc.
Note: Largely korean map experts except for Brain, Rabbit, Byul, J.H and Leebokgu who learned western map properly. Brain, Mong, Byul, Doromi(Tinkle), Levi(Hogil) and Scan are former or active professionals.
I disagree 100% you put 50 fuckjbg Koreans ahead of cole and Tom. Do you know what > symbol means? Lol I personally wrecked rabbit a few times.. what was it season 28?! Like if everyone was here and put in a league you don’t think Tom or cole wouldn’t be top 5?? At their best come on now.. get off the Korean nuts bro
To Clarify. Lets say we take a sample size of 21 games. The > in this case indicates I think that player is more likely to win more games out of that 21 over the next person. The higher up the more likely. Does not mean that the person higher will stomp the person lower. They are all great players. I could probably have thrown a couple more names in there as I chose to omit quite a few of them. My rankings have a higher weighting towards the korean map due to its lack of imbalances greatly affecting win rates. It has an imbalance with units being landable on high grounds, but that's the only one.
And lastly, Korea server has during its least active hours on average 6 times more players online than West server's peak hours. I looked just now, which is west peak activity hours and Korea's lowest activity hours. Korea had 6100 players online. Uswest 1254. During Korea's peak hours there are usually around 16000 to 22000 players online. There are simply more than 10 times more players on Korea server than Uswest. They have clans running inny games at Doromi+byul and Gensay+rabbit level all day long every day. They have loads of former professionals and semi-professionals in their fastest clans. Think of there being another 15 scans who play fastest all day instead of focusing on normal maps like scan does. Its a completely different environment in which the potential for growth is much higher. If West had a similar environment and a better map with less imbalances, I would probably have to place Hydra and Kokanee higher because they would have had more growth over the same amount of time.
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Brain > Minchul > Shin > Mong > Lucky > Burger+byul > Gangnamlife+458!!!+Leebokgu+sanfrancisco > Rabbit+Doromi+J.H+Henessy+RyanTeacher+Scan+Levi > Question+Trisha > Cong+9Rin+Her+Hubble+Insung+3D.Style > Hydra > Kokanee > etc.
Note: Largely korean map experts except for Brain, Rabbit, Byul, J.H and Leebokgu who learned western map properly. Brain, Mong, Byul, Doromi(Tinkle), Levi(Hogil) and Scan are former or active professionals.
I disagree 100% you put 50 fuckjbg Koreans ahead of cole and Tom. Do you know what > symbol means? Lol I personally wrecked rabbit a few times.. what was it season 28?! Like if everyone was here and put in a league you don’t think Tom or cole wouldn’t be top 5?? At their best come on now.. get off the Korean nuts bro
To Clarify. Lets say we take a sample size of 21 games. The > in this case indicates I think that player is more likely to win more games out of that 21 over the next person. The higher up the more likely. Does not mean that the person higher will stomp the person lower. They are all great players. I could probably have thrown a couple more names in there as I chose to omit quite a few of them. My rankings have a higher weighting towards the korean map due to its lack of imbalances greatly affecting win rates. It has an imbalance with units being landable on high grounds, but that's the only one.
And lastly, Korea server has during its least active hours on average 6 times more players online than West server's peak hours. I looked just now, which is west peak activity hours and Korea's lowest activity hours. Korea had 6100 players online. Uswest 1254. During Korea's peak hours there are usually around 16000 to 22000 players online. There are simply more than 10 times more players on Korea server than Uswest. They have clans running inny games at Doromi+byul and Gensay+rabbit level all day long every day. They have loads of former professionals and semi-professionals in their fastest clans. Think of there being another 15 scans who play fastest all day instead of focusing on normal maps like scan does. Its a completely different environment in which the potential for growth is much higher. If West had a similar environment and a better map with less imbalances, I would probably have to place Hydra and Kokanee higher because they would have had more growth over the same amount of time.
I do agree Korean professionals would have a better record if they practiced on our FMP map because they just have more players who can copy the strategies along with their micro.
It’s not like the non-Koreans can’t keep up but it definitely won’t be a one sided game record and also matchup dependent on RvsR.
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Best player is Pro]moNte-
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.
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whys anybody acknowledging what riddick is even saying he's barely literate. and yea the koreans shit all over everybody who gives af
Fund me and I’ll shit on all the top Koreans after some training as a Chinese 😉
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whys anybody acknowledging what riddick is even saying he's barely literate. and yea the koreans shit all over everybody who gives af
Nice
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koN had the best P vs Mid Z strategy on OG.
15 Minute GG
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Lon was trash, like you
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Lon was trash, like you
Even top players lose to 6pool 😂
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Riddick talks like hes good but got trashed nonstop this season on his smurf names Lgx]coco and sadistic daisy
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i dont play anymore david, but any time we run 1s i fuckin TRASHHH u. i only play 2s bitch boy and for fun. i dont play legit anymore
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davids getting spanked by gg easy.
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I dont even play...lol. And those are your smurf accounts. Easy to see ip and even easier to spot your 115 apm style. Did you cry when dolo 5-0ed you? Or when Dario raped you?
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How good was Pro]HarDy- ? He was also someone they talked about often.
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Hardy was top 10 hash was better than him but Tom wrecked them all
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Hardy was top 10 hash was better than him but Tom wrecked them all
Who? Myspace Tom?
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Hydra is the best to do it
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I heard Flash played FMP on USWest, is that true? 😯
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Is this some sort of joke? DrAndre was the best, is the best, and will always be the best. I R THE GREATEST MOTHER FUCKERS.
I played during KoKaNee’s Era, but I never really saw the competition before because I was learning the game on US-East.
I’ve heard of Marine / HasH / HyDrA
I’m wondering who did you old people considered the best since most of you watched or played against them during the VGT Era.
Discuss Go Go Go!
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HOW DARE YOU MENTION CHEESE WITHOUT METNIONING ME LOL.
I BEAT THAT MONKEY like 50-5 before I quit. Then I come back and no one is playing Broodwar because of all the families I bankrupted LOL
And btw he was cheating the entire way lol. And I was still winning. What kind of monkey's are you. LEARN YOUR STARCRAFT HISTORY. To this day, no one can beat me when I actually want to win with protoss and even with zerg and terran its tough. The problem is, your terran units are stronger then mine and you do wierd shit like that. But what you have a hard time beating is templar drops and timing situations. Even with zerg and terran though, if I really wanted to, I would win.
Battlecheese was like when the first Korean came 2 scw
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HOW DARE YOU MENTION CHEESE WITHOUT METNIONING ME LOL.
I BEAT THAT MONKEY like 50-5 before I quit. Then I come back and no one is playing Broodwar because of all the families I bankrupted LOL
And btw he was cheating the entire way lol. And I was still winning. What kind of monkey's are you. LEARN YOUR STARCRAFT HISTORY. To this day, no one can beat me when I actually want to win with protoss and even with zerg and terran its tough. The problem is, your terran units are stronger then mine and you do wierd shit like that. But what you have a hard time beating is templar drops and timing situations. Even with zerg and terran though, if I really wanted to, I would win.
Battlecheese was like when the first Korean came 2 scw
you're stupid
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Who was the best from Clan xS. ? Nice tag 😍
xS.ChangDaWei won a season when KoKaNee didn’t play, I think lol
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Yes David was good. Matt was good, Gus was decent then 2. And ofc I shit on ppl 2. That clan was real solid, but Tom was also in it and I think Tom is probably your best player
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HOW DARE YOU MENTION CHEESE WITHOUT METNIONING ME LOL.
I BEAT THAT MONKEY like 50-5 before I quit. Then I come back and no one is playing Broodwar because of all the families I bankrupted LOL
And btw he was cheating the entire way lol. And I was still winning. What kind of monkey's are you. LEARN YOUR STARCRAFT HISTORY. To this day, no one can beat me when I actually want to win with protoss and even with zerg and terran its tough. The problem is, your terran units are stronger then mine and you do wierd shit like that. But what you have a hard time beating is templar drops and timing situations. Even with zerg and terran though, if I really wanted to, I would win.
Battlecheese was like when the first Korean came 2 scw
I’ll give you 100$ if u can beat me bo5
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I heard Flash played FMP on USWest, is that true? 😯
He played on korea. A lot. with 458!!!, and then a lot with Brain, Jaehoon, Light, Shin, Minchul and LuckYback. Also a bunch with Moolgogi and mong.
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Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
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Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
So I'm mostly speaking on the general golden era of SCD/VGT because many of these players were no longer as active anymore but shortly after there was a huge dominant wave of mafia and Pro players that I'm honestly not too familiar with, so I'm focusing more on 2004-2010. There was so much talent and some players would have their prime come and go after a dominant season or two but when I think about the players who could consistently win across all of those years I divide it into 2 main categories, 1v1 and 2v2.
The first and only person that really comes to mind when I think of king of 2v2 is Ryoji. Him and the squad around him were usually so far ahead of everyone else it wasn't even close during this time. There was a brief time (when I created the 2v2 league FGt) that L]o[sT was not only able to compete but consistently beat them but overall I would say Ryoji, BeeF, uNiT & eViL (Renegade/Paul) across all of these years. This was usually clan Xp/xG and I'm pretty sure even a few of them joined L]o[sT. 2HoT and wiLdChild were solid in game and out and they usually cornered 2v2s with whoever was on their roster.
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La.ProGamer: was the only person during this era to not only win multiple SCD/VGT seasons but he did it back to back to back over and over. He was one of the most dominant players of his time and had an insane win rate. Many players hated and didn't respect him because he would be completely fine cheesing for 3 hours if he had to but he was one of the most determined winners we ever had hands down.
HasH: I don't think he needs much of an introduction but he was one of the handful of players who was incredibly dominant in 1v1s and 2v2s during this time. I had him and ProGamer in La together (Along with Hunter/Avenger/AssCobra/Cheese etc.) but they could not co-exist so HasH left and created MaFia which obviously went on to be one of the best clans of all time.
Avenger aka gM.shift: This kid came out of no where and was god tier, we debated for years about who's smurf this was because of how quickly he became a top player but that debate was mostly so hot because he also refused to lose and was one of the few people to take games off ProGamer for a few months.
bObA: Will is timeless and he was someone who would come back after being inactive for a year+ and would still be able to win. As far as seasonal wins go he might have had the largest gap from winning earlier FMP leagues and coming back just destroying SCD10 too. I don't know if anyone else had win's that spaced out.
MonGo: creative player with incredible mechanics. Widely regarding as a top player when he was active.
HyDrA: I feel like I don't even need to mention Tom here because it's so obvious but he is the GOAT. Controversial as can be back then, got caught hacking but ultimately showed that wasn't the reason why he was so good.
Cheese: Luke is similar to bObA when it comes to his reign but he was even more of a name and more dominant when he was around. Whenever we would host big tournaments like Calvino's All-Star tournament (Which BTW have the active users on this site seen that montage because I could upload it if it's not online anymore) we would always have to make sure we contacted Luke and Will (bObA) because without them in it the title wouldn't mean as much honestly. Also because Calvino was heavily biased towards his BW boys and wanted them to win it all lol.
Super]Marine: This kid was insane. He was a more shameless version of Stalife. He was almost as creative and flashy but where Stalife would just say "Fuck it" and leave a game when it became a turtlefest Marine would continue to play and usually win. Too many people forget how good this EU kid was because he wasn't involved in drama or grinding the ladder all the time.
Stalife: He was so gifted while at the same time being unquestionably the most entertaining player to watch. He would do crazy shit that shouldn't work and make it work because of his micro. He realized his talents catered more in non-money maps and he started competing and focusing more on that after SC2 was announced but he would always be around and compete with the best in the high profile leagues and tournaments. Stalife went on and made some waves in the SC2 professional community with HasH too.
HyDrA, HasH and Stalife IIRC we're also all chosen by our community to represent us in the TeamLiquid showmatch, FMP vs BGH. TL obviously didn't respect FMP at all and said it would be easy, we divided the maps up split between FMP/BGH style maps and we ended up winning because while our GOATs we're able to take games off them in low-money they could not literally touch any of them on FMP. It was a pretty huge deal and legitimized our community and it attracted more interest in the league.
Honorable mentions to the early kings of USEast before the leagues existed like Phantom (He did win SCD1 though), KoreaN[BF] (Honestly he should probably be on the main list, also SCD6 winner), KeFu (Won SCD5), TeMpLaR etc... Also BrooKLyN I love and miss you hope you're living your best life buddy.
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the gold old days! hope ur doing good buddy! i came back 15 years later lol
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Anyone have replays of the actual Stalife that aren’t corrupted I’d like to cast some of his games
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Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
So I'm mostly speaking on the general golden era of SCD/VGT because many of these players were no longer as active anymore but shortly after there was a huge dominant wave of mafia and Pro players that I'm honestly not too familiar with, so I'm focusing more on 2004-2010. There was so much talent and some players would have their prime come and go after a dominant season or two but when I think about the players who could consistently win across all of those years I divide it into 2 main categories, 1v1 and 2v2.
The first and only person that really comes to mind when I think of king of 2v2 is Ryoji. Him and the squad around him were usually so far ahead of everyone else it wasn't even close during this time. There was a brief time (when I created the 2v2 league FGt) that L]o[sT was not only able to compete but consistently beat them but overall I would say Ryoji, BeeF, uNiT & eViL (Renegade/Paul) across all of these years. This was usually clan Xp/xG and I'm pretty sure even a few of them joined L]o[sT. 2HoT and wiLdChild were solid in game and out and they usually cornered 2v2s with whoever was on their roster.
--
La.ProGamer: was the only person during this era to not only win multiple SCD/VGT seasons but he did it back to back to back over and over. He was one of the most dominant players of his time and had an insane win rate. Many players hated and didn't respect him because he would be completely fine cheesing for 3 hours if he had to but he was one of the most determined winners we ever had hands down.
HasH: I don't think he needs much of an introduction but he was one of the handful of players who was incredibly dominant in 1v1s and 2v2s during this time. I had him and ProGamer in La together (Along with Hunter/Avenger/AssCobra/Cheese etc.) but they could not co-exist so HasH left and created MaFia which obviously went on to be one of the best clans of all time.
Avenger aka gM.shift: This kid came out of no where and was god tier, we debated for years about who's smurf this was because of how quickly he became a top player but that debate was mostly so hot because he also refused to lose and was one of the few people to take games off ProGamer for a few months.
bObA: Will is timeless and he was someone who would come back after being inactive for a year+ and would still be able to win. As far as seasonal wins go he might have had the largest gap from winning earlier FMP leagues and coming back just destroying SCD10 too. I don't know if anyone else had win's that spaced out.
MonGo: creative player with incredible mechanics. Widely regarding as a top player when he was active.
HyDrA: I feel like I don't even need to mention Tom here because it's so obvious but he is the GOAT. Controversial as can be back then, got caught hacking but ultimately showed that wasn't the reason why he was so good.
Cheese: Luke is similar to bObA when it comes to his reign but he was even more of a name and more dominant when he was around. Whenever we would host big tournaments like Calvino's All-Star tournament (Which BTW have the active users on this site seen that montage because I could upload it if it's not online anymore) we would always have to make sure we contacted Luke and Will (bObA) because without them in it the title wouldn't mean as much honestly. Also because Calvino was heavily biased towards his BW boys and wanted them to win it all lol.
Super]Marine: This kid was insane. He was a more shameless version of Stalife. He was almost as creative and flashy but where Stalife would just say "Fuck it" and leave a game when it became a turtlefest Marine would continue to play and usually win. Too many people forget how good this EU kid was because he wasn't involved in drama or grinding the ladder all the time.
Stalife: He was so gifted while at the same time being unquestionably the most entertaining player to watch. He would do crazy shit that shouldn't work and make it work because of his micro. He realized his talents catered more in non-money maps and he started competing and focusing more on that after SC2 was announced but he would always be around and compete with the best in the high profile leagues and tournaments. Stalife went on and made some waves in the SC2 professional community with HasH too.
HyDrA, HasH and Stalife IIRC we're also all chosen by our community to represent us in the TeamLiquid showmatch, FMP vs BGH. TL obviously didn't respect FMP at all and said it would be easy, we divided the maps up split between FMP/BGH style maps and we ended up winning because while our GOATs we're able to take games off them in low-money they could not literally touch any of them on FMP. It was a pretty huge deal and legitimized our community and it attracted more interest in the league.
Honorable mentions to the early kings of USEast before the leagues existed like Phantom (He did win SCD1 though), KoreaN[BF] (Honestly he should probably be on the main list, also SCD6 winner), KeFu (Won SCD5), TeMpLaR etc... Also BrooKLyN I love and miss you hope you're living your best life buddy.
Near the end of the Era you described Kelevran and Khai came up strong to more or less dominate the final VGT seasons. Jon rose to be the best 2v2 player alongside Ryoji. I do wonder how they would do if they adapted and adjusted to the modern day meta like how Hydra did.
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Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
So I'm mostly speaking on the general golden era of SCD/VGT because many of these players were no longer as active anymore but shortly after there was a huge dominant wave of mafia and Pro players that I'm honestly not too familiar with, so I'm focusing more on 2004-2010. There was so much talent and some players would have their prime come and go after a dominant season or two but when I think about the players who could consistently win across all of those years I divide it into 2 main categories, 1v1 and 2v2.
The first and only person that really comes to mind when I think of king of 2v2 is Ryoji. Him and the squad around him were usually so far ahead of everyone else it wasn't even close during this time. There was a brief time (when I created the 2v2 league FGt) that L]o[sT was not only able to compete but consistently beat them but overall I would say Ryoji, BeeF, uNiT & eViL (Renegade/Paul) across all of these years. This was usually clan Xp/xG and I'm pretty sure even a few of them joined L]o[sT. 2HoT and wiLdChild were solid in game and out and they usually cornered 2v2s with whoever was on their roster.
--
La.ProGamer: was the only person during this era to not only win multiple SCD/VGT seasons but he did it back to back to back over and over. He was one of the most dominant players of his time and had an insane win rate. Many players hated and didn't respect him because he would be completely fine cheesing for 3 hours if he had to but he was one of the most determined winners we ever had hands down.
HasH: I don't think he needs much of an introduction but he was one of the handful of players who was incredibly dominant in 1v1s and 2v2s during this time. I had him and ProGamer in La together (Along with Hunter/Avenger/AssCobra/Cheese etc.) but they could not co-exist so HasH left and created MaFia which obviously went on to be one of the best clans of all time.
Avenger aka gM.shift: This kid came out of no where and was god tier, we debated for years about who's smurf this was because of how quickly he became a top player but that debate was mostly so hot because he also refused to lose and was one of the few people to take games off ProGamer for a few months.
bObA: Will is timeless and he was someone who would come back after being inactive for a year+ and would still be able to win. As far as seasonal wins go he might have had the largest gap from winning earlier FMP leagues and coming back just destroying SCD10 too. I don't know if anyone else had win's that spaced out.
MonGo: creative player with incredible mechanics. Widely regarding as a top player when he was active.
HyDrA: I feel like I don't even need to mention Tom here because it's so obvious but he is the GOAT. Controversial as can be back then, got caught hacking but ultimately showed that wasn't the reason why he was so good.
Cheese: Luke is similar to bObA when it comes to his reign but he was even more of a name and more dominant when he was around. Whenever we would host big tournaments like Calvino's All-Star tournament (Which BTW have the active users on this site seen that montage because I could upload it if it's not online anymore) we would always have to make sure we contacted Luke and Will (bObA) because without them in it the title wouldn't mean as much honestly. Also because Calvino was heavily biased towards his BW boys and wanted them to win it all lol.
Super]Marine: This kid was insane. He was a more shameless version of Stalife. He was almost as creative and flashy but where Stalife would just say "Fuck it" and leave a game when it became a turtlefest Marine would continue to play and usually win. Too many people forget how good this EU kid was because he wasn't involved in drama or grinding the ladder all the time.
Stalife: He was so gifted while at the same time being unquestionably the most entertaining player to watch. He would do crazy shit that shouldn't work and make it work because of his micro. He realized his talents catered more in non-money maps and he started competing and focusing more on that after SC2 was announced but he would always be around and compete with the best in the high profile leagues and tournaments. Stalife went on and made some waves in the SC2 professional community with HasH too.
HyDrA, HasH and Stalife IIRC we're also all chosen by our community to represent us in the TeamLiquid showmatch, FMP vs BGH. TL obviously didn't respect FMP at all and said it would be easy, we divided the maps up split between FMP/BGH style maps and we ended up winning because while our GOATs we're able to take games off them in low-money they could not literally touch any of them on FMP. It was a pretty huge deal and legitimized our community and it attracted more interest in the league.
Honorable mentions to the early kings of USEast before the leagues existed like Phantom (He did win SCD1 though), KoreaN[BF] (Honestly he should probably be on the main list, also SCD6 winner), KeFu (Won SCD5), TeMpLaR etc... Also BrooKLyN I love and miss you hope you're living your best life buddy.
Amazing read, didn’t get bored at all!
Now who would you say was a Top Player that never got to win a Season due to the others being just too good and active?
-
Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
So I'm mostly speaking on the general golden era of SCD/VGT because many of these players were no longer as active anymore but shortly after there was a huge dominant wave of mafia and Pro players that I'm honestly not too familiar with, so I'm focusing more on 2004-2010. There was so much talent and some players would have their prime come and go after a dominant season or two but when I think about the players who could consistently win across all of those years I divide it into 2 main categories, 1v1 and 2v2.
The first and only person that really comes to mind when I think of king of 2v2 is Ryoji. Him and the squad around him were usually so far ahead of everyone else it wasn't even close during this time. There was a brief time (when I created the 2v2 league FGt) that L]o[sT was not only able to compete but consistently beat them but overall I would say Ryoji, BeeF, uNiT & eViL (Renegade/Paul) across all of these years. This was usually clan Xp/xG and I'm pretty sure even a few of them joined L]o[sT. 2HoT and wiLdChild were solid in game and out and they usually cornered 2v2s with whoever was on their roster.
--
La.ProGamer: was the only person during this era to not only win multiple SCD/VGT seasons but he did it back to back to back over and over. He was one of the most dominant players of his time and had an insane win rate. Many players hated and didn't respect him because he would be completely fine cheesing for 3 hours if he had to but he was one of the most determined winners we ever had hands down.
HasH: I don't think he needs much of an introduction but he was one of the handful of players who was incredibly dominant in 1v1s and 2v2s during this time. I had him and ProGamer in La together (Along with Hunter/Avenger/AssCobra/Cheese etc.) but they could not co-exist so HasH left and created MaFia which obviously went on to be one of the best clans of all time.
Avenger aka gM.shift: This kid came out of no where and was god tier, we debated for years about who's smurf this was because of how quickly he became a top player but that debate was mostly so hot because he also refused to lose and was one of the few people to take games off ProGamer for a few months.
bObA: Will is timeless and he was someone who would come back after being inactive for a year+ and would still be able to win. As far as seasonal wins go he might have had the largest gap from winning earlier FMP leagues and coming back just destroying SCD10 too. I don't know if anyone else had win's that spaced out.
MonGo: creative player with incredible mechanics. Widely regarding as a top player when he was active.
HyDrA: I feel like I don't even need to mention Tom here because it's so obvious but he is the GOAT. Controversial as can be back then, got caught hacking but ultimately showed that wasn't the reason why he was so good.
Cheese: Luke is similar to bObA when it comes to his reign but he was even more of a name and more dominant when he was around. Whenever we would host big tournaments like Calvino's All-Star tournament (Which BTW have the active users on this site seen that montage because I could upload it if it's not online anymore) we would always have to make sure we contacted Luke and Will (bObA) because without them in it the title wouldn't mean as much honestly. Also because Calvino was heavily biased towards his BW boys and wanted them to win it all lol.
Super]Marine: This kid was insane. He was a more shameless version of Stalife. He was almost as creative and flashy but where Stalife would just say "Fuck it" and leave a game when it became a turtlefest Marine would continue to play and usually win. Too many people forget how good this EU kid was because he wasn't involved in drama or grinding the ladder all the time.
Stalife: He was so gifted while at the same time being unquestionably the most entertaining player to watch. He would do crazy shit that shouldn't work and make it work because of his micro. He realized his talents catered more in non-money maps and he started competing and focusing more on that after SC2 was announced but he would always be around and compete with the best in the high profile leagues and tournaments. Stalife went on and made some waves in the SC2 professional community with HasH too.
HyDrA, HasH and Stalife IIRC we're also all chosen by our community to represent us in the TeamLiquid showmatch, FMP vs BGH. TL obviously didn't respect FMP at all and said it would be easy, we divided the maps up split between FMP/BGH style maps and we ended up winning because while our GOATs we're able to take games off them in low-money they could not literally touch any of them on FMP. It was a pretty huge deal and legitimized our community and it attracted more interest in the league.
Honorable mentions to the early kings of USEast before the leagues existed like Phantom (He did win SCD1 though), KoreaN[BF] (Honestly he should probably be on the main list, also SCD6 winner), KeFu (Won SCD5), TeMpLaR etc... Also BrooKLyN I love and miss you hope you're living your best life buddy.
Wow amazing nerd lol
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Idk but a Mewtwo[zT] was looking at me and he played better than KoKaNee 😂
I think the clan NbK. was smurfing on other names during SCZ.
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Idk but a Mewtwo[zT] was looking at me and he played better than KoKaNee 😂
I think the clan NbK. was smurfing on other names during SCZ.
NbK had two hackers in it. Invaderzim was legit, but Luis and his buttbuddy were in it too and they both hacked and cheated. That ruined Nbk's reputation.
Edit: INvaderzim also let Luis play on his account during SCZ.
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Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
So I'm mostly speaking on the general golden era of SCD/VGT because many of these players were no longer as active anymore but shortly after there was a huge dominant wave of mafia and Pro players that I'm honestly not too familiar with, so I'm focusing more on 2004-2010. There was so much talent and some players would have their prime come and go after a dominant season or two but when I think about the players who could consistently win across all of those years I divide it into 2 main categories, 1v1 and 2v2.
The first and only person that really comes to mind when I think of king of 2v2 is Ryoji. Him and the squad around him were usually so far ahead of everyone else it wasn't even close during this time. There was a brief time (when I created the 2v2 league FGt) that L]o[sT was not only able to compete but consistently beat them but overall I would say Ryoji, BeeF, uNiT & eViL (Renegade/Paul) across all of these years. This was usually clan Xp/xG and I'm pretty sure even a few of them joined L]o[sT. 2HoT and wiLdChild were solid in game and out and they usually cornered 2v2s with whoever was on their roster.
--
La.ProGamer: was the only person during this era to not only win multiple SCD/VGT seasons but he did it back to back to back over and over. He was one of the most dominant players of his time and had an insane win rate. Many players hated and didn't respect him because he would be completely fine cheesing for 3 hours if he had to but he was one of the most determined winners we ever had hands down.
HasH: I don't think he needs much of an introduction but he was one of the handful of players who was incredibly dominant in 1v1s and 2v2s during this time. I had him and ProGamer in La together (Along with Hunter/Avenger/AssCobra/Cheese etc.) but they could not co-exist so HasH left and created MaFia which obviously went on to be one of the best clans of all time.
Avenger aka gM.shift: This kid came out of no where and was god tier, we debated for years about who's smurf this was because of how quickly he became a top player but that debate was mostly so hot because he also refused to lose and was one of the few people to take games off ProGamer for a few months.
bObA: Will is timeless and he was someone who would come back after being inactive for a year+ and would still be able to win. As far as seasonal wins go he might have had the largest gap from winning earlier FMP leagues and coming back just destroying SCD10 too. I don't know if anyone else had win's that spaced out.
MonGo: creative player with incredible mechanics. Widely regarding as a top player when he was active.
HyDrA: I feel like I don't even need to mention Tom here because it's so obvious but he is the GOAT. Controversial as can be back then, got caught hacking but ultimately showed that wasn't the reason why he was so good.
Cheese: Luke is similar to bObA when it comes to his reign but he was even more of a name and more dominant when he was around. Whenever we would host big tournaments like Calvino's All-Star tournament (Which BTW have the active users on this site seen that montage because I could upload it if it's not online anymore) we would always have to make sure we contacted Luke and Will (bObA) because without them in it the title wouldn't mean as much honestly. Also because Calvino was heavily biased towards his BW boys and wanted them to win it all lol.
Super]Marine: This kid was insane. He was a more shameless version of Stalife. He was almost as creative and flashy but where Stalife would just say "Fuck it" and leave a game when it became a turtlefest Marine would continue to play and usually win. Too many people forget how good this EU kid was because he wasn't involved in drama or grinding the ladder all the time.
Stalife: He was so gifted while at the same time being unquestionably the most entertaining player to watch. He would do crazy shit that shouldn't work and make it work because of his micro. He realized his talents catered more in non-money maps and he started competing and focusing more on that after SC2 was announced but he would always be around and compete with the best in the high profile leagues and tournaments. Stalife went on and made some waves in the SC2 professional community with HasH too.
HyDrA, HasH and Stalife IIRC we're also all chosen by our community to represent us in the TeamLiquid showmatch, FMP vs BGH. TL obviously didn't respect FMP at all and said it would be easy, we divided the maps up split between FMP/BGH style maps and we ended up winning because while our GOATs we're able to take games off them in low-money they could not literally touch any of them on FMP. It was a pretty huge deal and legitimized our community and it attracted more interest in the league.
Honorable mentions to the early kings of USEast before the leagues existed like Phantom (He did win SCD1 though), KoreaN[BF] (Honestly he should probably be on the main list, also SCD6 winner), KeFu (Won SCD5), TeMpLaR etc... Also BrooKLyN I love and miss you hope you're living your best life buddy.
Wow amazing nerd lol
word
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I want to come back and git gud to finally win a season.
Does anyone know all the VGT/SCD 1s and 2s Season Winners?
I’m just very curious how the seasons went and who peated and reigned.
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I want to come back and git gud to finally win a season.
Does anyone know all the VGT/SCD 1s and 2s Season Winners?
I’m just very curious how the seasons went and who peated and reigned.
Pro]Marine and xS.Jinchuuriki won a bunch of VGT and SCD seasons. Mafia.Whoosh won some of the last VGT seasons.
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What were Jinchuuriki’s alts? xS. Became cool after old school players left the game.
You seem to be well versed with the Korean scene too, where can I find their FMP ladder and who were the best Then and the best Now Korean-wise?
American-Koreans pretty much made up of half of these Top clans though.
It’s a game filled with White’s, Spanish’s and Korean’s.
I am one of the few American-Chinese who played this game along with my childhood friend David where we picked it up from Allen a low-money player.
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Any Spanish players want to write an interesting article about the history of their own dominance on this game?
Bored and want to catch up on this game lol
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What were Jinchuuriki’s alts? xS. Became cool after old school players left the game.
You seem to be well versed with the Korean scene too, where can I find their FMP ladder and who were the best Then and the best Now Korean-wise?
American-Koreans pretty much made up of half of these Top clans though.
It’s a game filled with White’s, Spanish’s and Korean’s.
I am one of the few American-Chinese who played this game along with my childhood friend David where we picked it up from Allen a low-money player.
Koreans dont really play a fastest ladder. But here's some youtube channels. They play a lot of public 3v3 on korean server.
Brain > Gensay/Mong/Flash > SHin/Byul/Burgersasu/Lucky > everyone else. There are a bunch of non streamer players of similar skill levels.
infiniteshin: https://youtu.be/Q4qzNaSM1_E and https://youtu.be/rwW496oIvwE
Brain(professional): https://youtu.be/S5I8iuPZwyw
Flash(professional): https://youtu.be/pLq46LbIObc
Lucky: https://youtu.be/DWQGQyQNuvo
Burgersasu: https://youtu.be/AXZOnTLgGI8
Rabbit: https://www.youtube.com/live/Y64n8YqbZwQ?feature=share&t=15827
Byul(professional): https://www.youtube.com/live/Qyy-j_U3R1M?feature=share&t=596
J.H: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/55338452
Goldscv/whiteandblack: https://www.youtube.com/live/ABMi3GbKclU?feature=share
Mong(professional): https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/55176550
Gensay: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/101810121 at 5 hours 27 minutes he plays vs brain.
Jaehoon(professional: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/50212332 at 55 minutes starts 2vs2 inny
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What were Jinchuuriki’s alts? xS. Became cool after old school players left the game.
You seem to be well versed with the Korean scene too, where can I find their FMP ladder and who were the best Then and the best Now Korean-wise?
American-Koreans pretty much made up of half of these Top clans though.
It’s a game filled with White’s, Spanish’s and Korean’s.
I am one of the few American-Chinese who played this game along with my childhood friend David where we picked it up from Allen a low-money player.
Koreans dont really play a fastest ladder. But here's some youtube channels. They play a lot of public 3v3 on korean server.
Brain > Gensay/Mong/Flash > SHin/Byul/Burgersasu/Lucky > everyone else. There are a bunch of non streamer players of similar skill levels.
infiniteshin: https://youtu.be/Q4qzNaSM1_E and https://youtu.be/rwW496oIvwE
Brain(professional): https://youtu.be/S5I8iuPZwyw
Flash(professional): https://youtu.be/pLq46LbIObc
Lucky: https://youtu.be/DWQGQyQNuvo
Burgersasu: https://youtu.be/AXZOnTLgGI8
Rabbit: https://www.youtube.com/live/Y64n8YqbZwQ?feature=share&t=15827
Byul(professional): https://www.youtube.com/live/Qyy-j_U3R1M?feature=share&t=596
J.H: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/55338452
Goldscv/whiteandblack: https://www.youtube.com/live/ABMi3GbKclU?feature=share
Mong(professional): https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/55176550
Gensay: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/101810121 at 5 hours 27 minutes he plays vs brain.
Jaehoon(professional: https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/50212332 at 55 minutes starts 2vs2 inny
thanks
too many channels that i didn't know
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Can someone talk about the VGT and SCD days?
I only know about SCZ :(
So I'm mostly speaking on the general golden era of SCD/VGT because many of these players were no longer as active anymore but shortly after there was a huge dominant wave of mafia and Pro players that I'm honestly not too familiar with, so I'm focusing more on 2004-2010. There was so much talent and some players would have their prime come and go after a dominant season or two but when I think about the players who could consistently win across all of those years I divide it into 2 main categories, 1v1 and 2v2.
The first and only person that really comes to mind when I think of king of 2v2 is Ryoji. Him and the squad around him were usually so far ahead of everyone else it wasn't even close during this time. There was a brief time (when I created the 2v2 league FGt) that L]o[sT was not only able to compete but consistently beat them but overall I would say Ryoji, BeeF, uNiT & eViL (Renegade/Paul) across all of these years. This was usually clan Xp/xG and I'm pretty sure even a few of them joined L]o[sT. 2HoT and wiLdChild were solid in game and out and they usually cornered 2v2s with whoever was on their roster.
--
La.ProGamer: was the only person during this era to not only win multiple SCD/VGT seasons but he did it back to back to back over and over. He was one of the most dominant players of his time and had an insane win rate. Many players hated and didn't respect him because he would be completely fine cheesing for 3 hours if he had to but he was one of the most determined winners we ever had hands down.
HasH: I don't think he needs much of an introduction but he was one of the handful of players who was incredibly dominant in 1v1s and 2v2s during this time. I had him and ProGamer in La together (Along with Hunter/Avenger/AssCobra/Cheese etc.) but they could not co-exist so HasH left and created MaFia which obviously went on to be one of the best clans of all time.
Avenger aka gM.shift: This kid came out of no where and was god tier, we debated for years about who's smurf this was because of how quickly he became a top player but that debate was mostly so hot because he also refused to lose and was one of the few people to take games off ProGamer for a few months.
bObA: Will is timeless and he was someone who would come back after being inactive for a year+ and would still be able to win. As far as seasonal wins go he might have had the largest gap from winning earlier FMP leagues and coming back just destroying SCD10 too. I don't know if anyone else had win's that spaced out.
MonGo: creative player with incredible mechanics. Widely regarding as a top player when he was active.
HyDrA: I feel like I don't even need to mention Tom here because it's so obvious but he is the GOAT. Controversial as can be back then, got caught hacking but ultimately showed that wasn't the reason why he was so good.
Cheese: Luke is similar to bObA when it comes to his reign but he was even more of a name and more dominant when he was around. Whenever we would host big tournaments like Calvino's All-Star tournament (Which BTW have the active users on this site seen that montage because I could upload it if it's not online anymore) we would always have to make sure we contacted Luke and Will (bObA) because without them in it the title wouldn't mean as much honestly. Also because Calvino was heavily biased towards his BW boys and wanted them to win it all lol.
Super]Marine: This kid was insane. He was a more shameless version of Stalife. He was almost as creative and flashy but where Stalife would just say "Fuck it" and leave a game when it became a turtlefest Marine would continue to play and usually win. Too many people forget how good this EU kid was because he wasn't involved in drama or grinding the ladder all the time.
Stalife: He was so gifted while at the same time being unquestionably the most entertaining player to watch. He would do crazy shit that shouldn't work and make it work because of his micro. He realized his talents catered more in non-money maps and he started competing and focusing more on that after SC2 was announced but he would always be around and compete with the best in the high profile leagues and tournaments. Stalife went on and made some waves in the SC2 professional community with HasH too.
HyDrA, HasH and Stalife IIRC we're also all chosen by our community to represent us in the TeamLiquid showmatch, FMP vs BGH. TL obviously didn't respect FMP at all and said it would be easy, we divided the maps up split between FMP/BGH style maps and we ended up winning because while our GOATs we're able to take games off them in low-money they could not literally touch any of them on FMP. It was a pretty huge deal and legitimized our community and it attracted more interest in the league.
Honorable mentions to the early kings of USEast before the leagues existed like Phantom (He did win SCD1 though), KoreaN[BF] (Honestly he should probably be on the main list, also SCD6 winner), KeFu (Won SCD5), TeMpLaR etc... Also BrooKLyN I love and miss you hope you're living your best life buddy.
are u la.entiti?? loool,, dont forget xs.sin and asscobra-
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Who did these players learn the FMP strategies from and the players after them, who did they learn from?
Which Top Player had the most successful students? 🤔
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Ryoji would still be great if he played. And back when everyone only played ppvpp he was the goat. You couldn’t join xS. Without learning ppvpp so he taught everyone in that clan how to be great at 2s. Made me inny ppvpp with him and the clan everyday for a month before joining lol he took it seriously.
Being someone that had a chance to play through all the eras,
SCD - entity covered it and knew best, he ran it
VGT times
Kelevran
Hydra
Marine
Sin/flash
Those four ran shit in 1s - Jinchuriki, hash, hardy, and many other great players were very good but beatable. The other four you were lucky to pull a game off of.
Early UGL times
Cole
List ends there. Kokanee was on a different level than everyone else on OG. Knew every timing perfectly, great macro, played cautious. Most people couldn’t win a game off him. When I started getting wins off of him I was much better than everyone else in the league at the time who was active aside from lovelyrabbit. I didn’t stay around too long when I was a top player though. Missed a lot of seasons
And now from my experience after my 3-4 month comeback scw is Koreans and hydra above everyone with nobody close. Dingo, evil, Jose, Cole all great but not as good as the Koreans or Tom from what I see now. Lot of good memories on this game.
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Ryoji would still be great if he played. And back when everyone only played ppvpp he was the goat. You couldn’t join xS. Without learning ppvpp so he taught everyone in that clan how to be great at 2s. Made me inny ppvpp with him and the clan everyday for a month before joining lol he took it seriously.
ryoji was inflexible in ppvpp and got easy to beat near the end as the higher level players like me started evolving the pp meta, which probably contributited to him quitting but he gets an A+ for spending all day making pp spreadsheets
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and cannons
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Ryoji would still be great if he played. And back when everyone only played ppvpp he was the goat. You couldn’t join xS. Without learning ppvpp so he taught everyone in that clan how to be great at 2s. Made me inny ppvpp with him and the clan everyday for a month before joining lol he took it seriously.
Being someone that had a chance to play through all the eras,
SCD - entity covered it and knew best, he ran it
VGT times
Kelevran
Hydra
Marine
Sin/flash
Those four ran shit in 1s - Jinchuriki, hash, hardy, and many other great players were very good but beatable. The other four you were lucky to pull a game off of.
Early UGL times
Cole
List ends there. Kokanee was on a different level than everyone else on OG. Knew every timing perfectly, great macro, played cautious. Most people couldn’t win a game off him. When I started getting wins off of him I was much better than everyone else in the league at the time who was active aside from lovelyrabbit. I didn’t stay around too long when I was a top player though. Missed a lot of seasons
And now from my experience after my 3-4 month comeback scw is Koreans and hydra above everyone with nobody close. Dingo, evil, Jose, Cole all great but not as good as the Koreans or Tom from what I see now. Lot of good memories on this game.
Khai was the one who showed up biggest in tournaments though. The chosen tournaments that actually made their way to completion, Khai beat all note worthy players of the time in those and won. But he failed to adapt in later years after VGT when the meta started to show signs of shifting. Kelevran had the same issue.
How would you rate the players of that era against for example present day WhiteAndBlack or Hydra?
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Khai was great and a friend of mine. I did win off him here and there when I wasn’t a top player though. Same with hash. I think the players I mentioned were all skilled enough to become great in this time if they kept playing. They were top players for a reason. However the level of play has increased since VGT times. I remember when I came back after vgt and played cole I realized he took the game to a new level back then. I don’t think the level of competition has gotten too much better since the beginning of ugl though. Players like hydra (I haven’t played blackandwhite) are now at the same spot as the way cole was when he was super active and ran OG. Timings perfect, speed, macro, micro and super creative as well. I didn’t play for eight years, played two seasons and was able to be very competitive with top players even never playing brood war. I was only a top player for a short time before that eight year hiatus and was still able to come back and relearn the game in a 3 month span. Although that was enough to beat a majority of the league especially in a series, it wasn’t enough to beat the hydras and Jose’s left on this game. These guys have played for a long time and have been active enough over the years to constantly improve.
If people came back - say kelevran or sin, they’d take months to get to the level hydra is at if not a year + of steady gaming in my opinion.
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There were 2 great players on US East when I was there, I think.
vS. dude named Duy and Tank)S( / Drug)S(
I wonder who were they on US West on the competitive leagues 🤔
Marine)S( left and went US West but he was also a big player left on East.
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Vs.singy I think was duy. Ya he was pretty good
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I am. I am the greatest FMP and Starcraft player of all time. I'm the best at everything. Running, Monopoly, Counter Strike, Starcraft, Chess, Gin Rummy, Poker, Fighting, Shopping, Watching Movies, LOL
Ryoji would still be great if he played. And back when everyone only played ppvpp he was the goat. You couldn’t join xS. Without learning ppvpp so he taught everyone in that clan how to be great at 2s. Made me inny ppvpp with him and the clan everyday for a month before joining lol he took it seriously.
Being someone that had a chance to play through all the eras,
SCD - entity covered it and knew best, he ran it
VGT times
Kelevran
Hydra
Marine
Sin/flash
Those four ran shit in 1s - Jinchuriki, hash, hardy, and many other great players were very good but beatable. The other four you were lucky to pull a game off of.
Early UGL times
Cole
List ends there. Kokanee was on a different level than everyone else on OG. Knew every timing perfectly, great macro, played cautious. Most people couldn’t win a game off him. When I started getting wins off of him I was much better than everyone else in the league at the time who was active aside from lovelyrabbit. I didn’t stay around too long when I was a top player though. Missed a lot of seasons
And now from my experience after my 3-4 month comeback scw is Koreans and hydra above everyone with nobody close. Dingo, evil, Jose, Cole all great but not as good as the Koreans or Tom from what I see now. Lot of good memories on this game.
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Edit
Joe r u saying cheese was Korean? Luke was the whitest guy ever
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All I know is I was dodging drops and stack attacking on this game since I was 13-14 years old.
If I get out of homelessness and onto this game again, I’ll easily become a top player if I mass games 😂