StarCraft World

GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 12:22:48 am

Title: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 12:22:48 am
Hello all, I just wanted to explain the format for the end of season tournament so it catches no one by surprise.

My goal in this new format is to have the fairest competition possible, I feel eliminating any M/U advantages will help yield this.




                      The format and rules for the tournament are as follows.

- Predetermined M/U's for every game.
- Quarter and semi finals will be a bo7.
- The finals will be a bo9
- The quarter finals will be (#2 vs #5) and (#3 vs #4).
- The semifinals will be between the winners of the preceding matches.
- The winner of the semi finals will face the #1 ranked player in the finals.




                        The quarter and semi finals M/U's are as follows.
 
(This is explained from the lower ranked players perspective. The lower ranked player will always start the M/U sequence.)
 
 ~  1st game PvT
 ~  2nd game TvP
 ~  3rd game PvZ
 ~  4th game ZvP
 ~  5th game TvZ
 ~  6th game ZvT
 ~  7th game PvP



                                                   
                                     The finals M/U's are as follows.

 ~  1st game PvT
 ~  2nd game TvP
 ~  3rd game PvZ
 ~  4th game ZvP
 ~  5th game TvZ
 ~  6th game ZvT
 ~  7th game PvP
 ~  8th game TvT
 ~  9th game ZvZ


Let me know your thoughts on this format and if you think it is justified. If you think you have an idea of how to make a more fair competition let me know.

Oh and if a player has multiple accounts in the top 5 his lower ranked will be removed and replaced with the next highest ranked player.

Thanks!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: AI on April 23, 2020, 12:47:16 am
Drawing lots for managers and operators

ex)7bo
 ~  1st game ZvZ
 ~  2nd game TvP
 ~  3rd game PvT
 ~  4th game ZvP
 ~  5th game PvZ
 ~  6th game ZvT
 ~  7th game TvZ

ex)9bo                                                   
 ~  1st game ZvZ
 ~  2nd game PvP
 ~  3rd game TvP
 ~  4th game PvT
 ~  5th game ZvP
 ~  6th game PvZ
 ~  7th game TvZ
 ~  8th game ZvT
 ~  9th game TvT
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 12:52:08 am
@ AI.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

So for the 7th game in either the quarter or semi finals you want the M/U to be either PvP, TvT or ZvZ?

How would the M/U be decided?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 12:52:17 am
all games are rvr. it would be silly to make set m/us when no one plays like this. any game can be won regardless of spot or matchup.

if people want to bust there ass to get two accounts in the top 5 i think they should be rewarded with both accounts in the tournament.(they are the ones creating the activity for the league)

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 12:53:56 am
@ AI.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

So for the 7th game in either the quarter or semi finals you want the M/U to be either PvP, TvT or ZvZ?

How would the M/U be decided?

do not have set m/us. this seems ridiculous to me when the league is and always has been an RVR league. picked matchups will be abused much more than rvr based strats.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 12:55:40 am
@ DryFly

How could predetermined M/U's be abused?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 12:59:12 am
tvz im bunk rushing ur choke.
pvz im going fast tech
tvp im choking asap.

fmp has imbalances and if i know the pre determined matchup, i would abuse this.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 01:08:57 am
@ Dryfly

I definitely see your point and respectfully disagree.

The great aspect of this game is that any strategy can be countered.
A protoss going fast tech can be countered.
A choking terran can also be countered.
Everything can be countered with enough game sense and APM.

I don't see the point in a player putting in the time to play 200+ games just to get Mid ZvP 4 games in a row, that's not starcraft. Anyone who has played this game knows having a mid spot vs a high level player is an absolute disadvantage, there is no argument. 

Also, there are always M/U complaints at the end of tournaments. I seek to have none of these.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on April 23, 2020, 01:12:01 am
Well, in my humble opinion, if something has characterized the league, it is that for centuries all the players played RVR without problems and gg
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 01:16:47 am
im telling you, people will be upset if this is the format.

everyone plays rvr. all games this season are rvr.

one of the only advantages of zerg on fmp is not being scouted asap so you can get ur choke up without pressure of a rush. now you want people vs a pre determined zerg and only scouting chokes?  think about it man.

and do not take peoples 2nd accounts out, this is what keeps activity during regular season. if you only allow one account, people will dodge and protect this 1 account.

i get that its ur money u donated, but i cant argue this idea anymore. picked m/us in a final when everyone plays RvR is just nonsense to me..



Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on April 23, 2020, 01:24:25 am
Hi, I'm new to fastest, started 4 months ago. I don't know if my point of view will be valid in fastest, but here is my opinion.

From my point of view, mirror match up should be added in a 1st, 4th, 7th or 3rd, 6th, 9th set for bo9 series.
bo7, each player has a chance to ban a one of mirror match up. If both players want to ban same mirror match up, lower rank or rock, paper, scissors for the winner to ban another mirror match up.


 Example of Bo7

 ~  1st game PvT
 ~  2nd game TvP
 ~  3rd game PvZ
 ~  4th game ZvP
 ~  5th game one mirror match up
 ~  6th game TvZ
 ~  7th game ZvT



                                                   
                                     Example of Bo9

 ~  1st game PvT
 ~  2nd game TvP
 ~  3rd game PvP
 ~  4th game TvZ
 ~  5th game ZvT
 ~  6th game TvT
 ~  7th game PvZ
 ~  8th game ZvP
 ~  9th game ZvZ

Or


 ~  1st game PvP
 ~  2nd game PvT
 ~  3rd game TvP
 ~  4th game TvT
 ~  5th game PvZ
 ~  6th game ZvP
 ~  7th game ZvZ
 ~  8th game TvZ
 ~  9th game ZvT
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 01:25:47 am
See below comment.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 01:30:06 am

That is true, the league has always been played RvR.

It just pains me to see players get unfavorable M/U's in their series, it leaves them without a fair chance of winning after all the time and effort they put into the league.

I think the only way to solve this is to ask the community.
If the community votes for RvR then RvR it will be, and vice versa.

In the end I just want to see the fairest competition possible.

A poll has been posted, if you're reading this please vote!

Thanks.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Robotik on April 23, 2020, 01:32:35 am
I can see points of either side.

Getting z mid spot is a huge disadvantage and losing the tournament because of that is disappointing (justified).

The problem is clear and exists: Spot and race disadvantages. A solution would be nice, but I don't think yours is helping. Setting matchups kills race unfairness, but spots are the bigger problem and untouched.

Example: PvZ is cross map, ZvP you are mid with P above you. Still unfair.

What about other solutions? Like veto for 1-3 matches that can be used in the first 2 minutes? You don't kill the suspense of RvR, you help against spot/race luck.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on April 23, 2020, 01:33:25 am

That is true, the league has always been played RvR.

It just pains me to see players get unfavorable M/U's in their series, it leaves them without a fair chance of winning after all the time and effort they put into the league.

I think the only way to solve this is to ask the community.
If the community votes for RvR then RvR it will be, and vice versa.

In the end I just want to see the fairest competition possible.

A poll has been posted, if you're reading this please vote!

Thanks.

how do I vote? I need a help. I'm voting for set M/Us :)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 01:35:52 am
@ scan1014

There is a poll posted at the top of the thread.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: AI on April 23, 2020, 01:46:48 am
.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 02:59:58 am
I understand what you’re trying to do Port, but the matchups are not the imbalance, it’s the map. Even setting pre matchups can still cause abuse, which is the problem. But it’s also fastest map and how we play it. You’re going to get complaints no matter what. Not everyone is always going to be happy. As mentioned if I’m playing Cole and he picks PvZ and he gets to be right above me. It’s a free win as not only will he fast tech because he knows the matchup, but he’s right above me. Now it’s my turn to pick and play PvZ and it’s cross map and he’s corner. That’s not equal playing field as he just had a matchup above me. So now I’m going to complain my PvZ was much harder and not fair. So what are you going to do for me now? Games can be won from mid spots. Obviously it’s harder yes but no impossible. A series between Mandingo and I last night, I won ZvP as mid zerg, and he won a TvP vs me as mid Terran. The better game play will win and can win no matter the spot. Yes of course it makes it harder and sometimes almost impossible, but again that’s the map not the matchups.

I agree with Cole that having predetermined matchups will just make people abuse another way. Terran will bunk rush or go straight gas into factories vs zerg. Protoss same thing can just go straight into fast drops. Zvt the zerg doesn’t have to worry about a 4 Gate. Pre determined matchups takes the fun out of sc. You don’t need to really scout. You know what you’re doing before the game even starts.

And we also don’t do pre determined matchups all season so why now for the finals? That’s like the NFL playing regular games all season by its current rules and then come playoff time okay each team gets 10 possessions a game to make it fair so everyone has a same shot. That’s not how it works. Or the NBA playing by its current rules for the regular season and then saying for playoffs each team gets to shoot 30 three point shots and 40 two point shots no more no less. Whoever makes the most shots wins. Just silly.

If we want to finally make changes to the imbalances of fastest then we adopt a new map. The matchups can still be imbalanced on our map predetermined or not.

A low money player will vote for predetermined matchups because that’s how low is played and what they’re used to. Of course they’ll love that. But again this isn’t low money. We also as a community for years have frowned upon pickers, mainly Protoss pickers. We have bmd Sithlord for years for doing this and now we’re going to encourage picking?

Again if we want to finally change the imbalances we change the map. That is the only way, not having set matchups.

Also my two cents on the accounts in the top five, I feel they do deserve something for getting two accounts in there. Whether that be a second lifeline per say if they lose they get another chance at redemption. Some sort of reward should be put in place or else what’s the point? As Cole said it creates activity and we have enough dodging as it is. This will just encourage more to protect one account and sit at the top and dodge and less activity. And we need more activity and less dodging. Another option is to expand the tournament to more people if multiple accounts are in there. If there’s two double accounts then it goes to the top 7. Or if there’s 1 account then just top 6. But there needs to be a reward for getting to accounts in the top.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: La.911! on April 23, 2020, 03:31:10 am
Seems awfully strange to have a season that is 99.9% RvR and then have a tournament that isn't that
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 06:07:15 am
The higher ranked player gets to decide the match of the first game. After that, the loser decides the next match up but can not PICK a match up that has already been played in that series.

EXAMPLE:
1. PVT  (1 on P, 2 on T) - > 1 P win
2. TVP  (1 on T, 2 on P) - > 1 T win
3. ZVP ( 1 on Z, 2 on P) - > 2 P win
4. TvZ  ( 1 on T, 2 on Z) -> 1 T win.
5. Etc.

This way the players have a bit more control over the match ups.

Another alternative to make it more fair is by eliminating middle spawns for the finals and doing only corner spawns with slightly bigger chokes to combat turtling(to a certain degree.)

Or use one of the more balanced maps I made that has a bit more room for defense against drops on 12 3 6 and 9
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 08:23:57 am
why are you guys trying to change everything all of a sudden, theres a reason why people still come back play fmp leagues.

premier should have absolute 0 input in this as he does not participate in the league whatsoever..

also having an open poll is just as stupid, lets have people that dont play or dont even make it to the final 5 but lets have them vote for the people who put the time in to make the tournament.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 09:37:53 am
I like the multiple account idea, if that happens a top 6 or top 7 will be used.



I definitely see your point Kon but still I respectfully disagree.


For your PvZ argument. Fast tech doesn't automatically win a game vs zerg, it can absolutely be countered. I've seen many games where the P goes fast drops and get's countered by early hydras and or lings. Anything can be countered.


I feel basically any advantage a player has in a certain M/U the other player also has. For the TvZ bunk rush fast gas M/U advantage, the zerg also has that same advantage; knowing their opponents race, they will then be able to counter. It's not like one player knows their opponents race while the other doesn't.

And this is nothing like the NFL or the NBA. These sports are almost completely balanced during the regular and post season. There is a reason during the playoffs (in the NBA) the teams switch courts after a certain number of games, to remove any home court advantage one team may have.

Sithlord was frowned upon because he picked the most OP race every game, and he is bitch made. If someone picked Zerg every game I don't think many would be complaining, also both players are picking giving each a chance to consider any advantages of the M/U.

Low money players play specialize in one race. The match ups I have listed include all races, I don't see any advantages here for low money players.

In last seasons tournament the winner got protoss 11/14 games, and RvR is fair? Anyone who knows the FMP game style knows Protoss is by far the most broken race and even more broken when played by a top level gamer.

In the winner's semi finals series his opponent who is a good player and who put a lot of time into the season got Mid z every single game and lost 0-4. This was one of the most unfair things I have ever seen. I would rather have a spot disadvantage for a game than to get mid ZvP four games in a row.

And upon watching the replays of last season's tournament multiple players complained about bad M/U's.
I agree, they were.

I still feel pre determined M/U's is the fairest route to go. I mean getting P 11/14 games is fucking ridiculous, it's not starcraft.

In the end I just want to see the fairest competition possible. We will let the community decide, maybe taking a poll for just those competing is the route to go.





Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:02:07 am
It’s understandable that you don’t understand how fmp works because ur a low caliber player but this being said the outcome of last season would of been the same reguardless of matchups.


Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:05:46 am
In the finals , mandingo had corner base every game z or t with the exception of his pv mid z game (which he lost to mid z)

Any game is winnable reguardless of who it’s vs.

Yes Ai got unlucky but he also chose to not choke as Zerg any of the games which is pretty much an auto loss on fmp. His fault not the sc gods
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 10:22:01 am
We'll let the community decide and when the time comes the Top 5 decide.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:29:55 am
People need to know now. It changes how the season goes
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:31:13 am
Especially the two account thing. Even you have to admit it will increase activity and that should be the number one priority of the current state of the league
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:33:54 am
It seems like ur posting without even thinking about foreseeable outcomes
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:37:05 am
Zerg win ratio drops significantly if Opponents are only scouting chokes.
Just really think about it for a second before  replying
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 10:38:32 am
I agree with the multiple account thing, league activity is the end game goal here. I was just unsure of how to go about running the brackets. I will probably adopt kons idea of using the top 6,7,etc. If someone has multiple accounts.

If anyone has a better idea of how to go about dealing with  multiple top accounts let me know.

I agree determining the format for the tournament needs to happen as fast as it can. The tournament is a little less than a month away. I want to see more people's perspectives first before making any decisions.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 10:55:10 am
I’m just telling you right now I will not be picking anything Other than R . I just don’t see how you want to force people to pick matchups when every single game has been rvr

If you want to play picked races go play low. Fmp community is its own niche for a reason
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 11:16:22 am
If you’re doing set matchups I will also follow suit and not participate. Such a stupid idea and ruins how fastest has been played for 20 years. I made my case and your response refutes none of it with any valid points.

Thank you for donating, running a tournament and trying to make things fair but this isn’t the answer.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Alex on April 23, 2020, 11:20:12 am
We shouldn't play in regular scw 17, scw 3.0 is better for mid spots, a lot of players abuse spots and m/u
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 11:33:10 am
Why do you have to call my idea 'stupid'? I'm just trying to come up with an idea to make things more balanced on a clearly imbalanced map.

I donate money to the prize pools to help keep this great game alive and to attract the best competition possible. I'm not trying to 'ruin' anything, you look at me as if I were some kind of criminal.

I'm just trying to host a more fair tournament.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 11:34:57 am
having done something for a long period of does not mean it isn't flawed. Which it is. Change can be tried out and can always be reverted if it winds up being shit.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 11:42:45 am
Newport, knowing the set matchups makes the game more imbalanced
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 11:54:05 am
I’ll say it again for you guys. The problem isn’t matchups, it’s the MAP. If you want to try and make fastest fair you change the map. That is the only way to do it. People will still abuse with picking set matchups. I don’t understand how that’s so hard to see. Picking matchups solves nothing other then finding a different way to ruin the game. People will still abuse. You know why? Because picking matchups doesn’t mean you won’t be mid spot.

The flaw in fastest is the map. Nothing else. Making set matchups doesn’t change the map. Period

Zerg is the most reactive race on fastest. The zerg will never win a game playing against a good player. Protoss and Terran can pretty well do whatever they want against a zerg early game and not have to worry about anything. Zerg plays behind from the get go in fastest. Now you’re going to give the Protoss and Terran more of a head start by knowing the race? Zergs get ahead by the Protoss and terrans having to do builds to protect against vsing a Terran or Protoss as opponents. And then failing those builds to an extent. A zerg gets ahead by stuffing a mid build or 4 Gate, or the Protoss going nexus into gates not nexus straight into gas. Every Terran go almost 3 racks. Why would a Terran now go 3 tax when they know it’s a zerg? That would just be stupid. They don’t have to 4 gate or mid build or go nexus and four gateways because the only thing that could potentially hurt them is a few lings. And anyone who can stack workers or build 1-2 cannons holds that.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 12:08:48 pm
I made a 4 player map that focuses on nerfing midbuild protoss and removing spot abuse entirely. It looks a bit wonky but I think people can get used to it. It is also something people can play just for the sake of playing fastest on a unique new map.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Robotik on April 23, 2020, 12:11:24 pm
I'll repeat my idea:

A good solution to bad luck with location/race setups are is giving people one or two veto which can be used in the first 2-3 minutes (if no action happened yet).

That highly reduces the luck factor and the suspense/strategy of rvr is not touched.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 12:17:28 pm
All of this is speculation.

None of us actually know what will happen with the predetermined M/U's as it has never been done before. It's almost impossible to predict the future.

I agree that the map is one of the biggest flaws but M/U's are a bigger flaw.

Protoss will always have the advantage, even when mid with the other player above them. I've seen countless games of top players winning as mid P with their opponent above them.

Temp drops are the biggest flaw of FMP.

Like I said I will let the community decide what they think is most fair.


And @ Robotik

I like the idea, you will have to be more specific in explaining it though if it's to be taken seriously.




Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 12:25:36 pm
Fmp is a fast pace scrambled game not a four corner turtle fest.

The poll should not decide ur decision , you need personal reach out the players that compete in the league ( although sword has the final say and he is Already bming this concept )

If u were allowed one veto game per series it would have to be done within the moment you spawn . Not 2-3 minutes in.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 12:29:28 pm
If you seriously think matchups are a bigger flaw than this map in fastest, I’m sorry but you’re an idiot. And we’re clearly wasting our time arguing with you as you have ZERO clue of what you’re talking about.

If you’re so keen on doing this then do a small in season tournament testing it out. Don’t decide to “try it out” at the end of the season for money. Do a 4 person tournament right now with your format and watch how imbalanced, boring and bad it is. I’ll happily participate to prove a point
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 12:32:35 pm
I made a 4 player map that focuses on nerfing midbuild protoss and removing spot abuse entirely. It looks a bit wonky but I think people can get used to it. It is also something people can play just for the sake of playing fastest on a unique new map.

Awful. So now a corner zerg can create two chokes instead of one? Yay you’ve broken one zergs choke now guess what you get to do it all over again!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 12:35:16 pm
I agree, I will reach out and send personal messages to many competitors.

And again, Sword does have the final say in the tournament format, he is the one who makes this whole thing even possible.

Also I agree with the vetoing immediately as opposed to waiting 2-3 minutes. Maybe this vetoing idea could help make the tournament more balanced.

And @ Kon

The only thing i was 'keen' on was creating a more fair tournament, there is a reason I posted this thread as early as I did; to hear the opinions of the community.

And just a little tip, your bm is doing nothing positive for the small community that still exists. You need to calm down.



Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 12:42:00 pm
i Personal don’t like vetoing but I will compromise and allow 1 per series immediate spawn.. although I really think this is a waste of time. Mid z mid t is all part of the game . You play what ur dealt
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 12:45:49 pm
Premiers opinion should NOT matter at all. He doesn’t participate and he doesn’t promote . He is the biggest deterrent for Fmp community
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 12:58:30 pm
Sorry but making comments such as “matchups are a bigger flaw than the map” deserve to be criticized. That’s a moronic statement from someone that’s played this game for as long as you have.

I am calm. I’m simply refuting your points and yes criticizing stupid remarks. I don’t believe you’re doing this to try and ruin the game, or to be an ass. I think your reasoning is valid, but your process and idea on how to resolve the issue at hand is flawed and isn’t the way to go.

As I said before thank you for donating, running a tournament and trying to make a difference. But from your last few comments you’re in no position of knowledge of this game to make format changes. I am all for looking to make a difference to try and make balance in fastest better. The way that really only starts is by changing the map. That’s where this conversation needs to start.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 01:11:31 pm
@Kon

It was made mostly for giggles. Made it as an alternative for the sake of variety so people can play on a map that has the same minerals/gas but a different layout. For the sake of Variety. I made the inner chokes so wide it should be rather difficult to choke there. Alternatively I can still increase the size and just make it a Cross shaped middle that has no inner choke. But again, mostly a map made for variety and testing, not for competition.

Onto a more serious issue however. The current standard map can do this(See image 1). This happened in the ZvP between Scan and Rillo (https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?action=league&mode=gamedetails&l=1&season=51&gid=3027)

This seriously begs for some fixes to the map. I made a map that was intended to have as few changes as possible while fixing the major spot abuse problems, choke size problems, andbase size problems.(images 2-5).

Bigger base size 12 and 6. Smaller choke 12 and 6. Wider choke corners but less wide than fainer's version. More build room above minerals on 9 and 3 to combat spot abuse without adding a huge area of space inbetween.


(https://i.imgur.com/nLrrklJ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/5labZQc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/76WkIur.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/GOgxMFr.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2xSrdQq.png)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 01:16:30 pm
You can disagree with my point of view that's fine, we are all entitled to our opinions.

You don't have to use derogatory terms such as 'idiot' or 'moronic' to get your point across, let's be adults here.

I still disagree that predetermined will make things more imbalanced, it hasn't been tried yet.

If my idea is so flawed why does the current #1 ranked player agree with my format? I'm sure he has sufficient knowledge of the game.

In the end though if Sword or the community wants it RvR, it will be that.





Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 01:19:19 pm
Premier you are wrong about the storm abuse. Use this game for reference
https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?action=league&mode=gamedetails&l=1&gid=2014

This is why u don’t know the game at all
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 01:21:05 pm
Premier you are wrong about the storm abuse. Use this game for reference
https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?action=league&mode=gamedetails&l=1&gid=2014

This is why u don’t know the game at all

I was watching it live. He was storming over the space onto the hive and killing drones. go watch the replay.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 01:22:09 pm
And look how I change direction of drones to not be stormed
Re watch the replay near mid/end game
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 01:24:01 pm
I corrected it after I did it wrong at The start.

This is why u are incredible at talking about the map. Not my fault u and scan didn’t know this trick
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on April 23, 2020, 01:24:49 pm
The idea is not stupid, the intention is to make it fairer, that should be done in a separate tournament that is tested.

Here the west community is very old and they are stubborn to change so I doubt  play predetermined M/U's and map change. By the way, predetermined M/U's as described by scan is better

The fastest Koreans do play that way as Newport says. Also what kokane and kon says is yes or no, that is, terran vs zerg, the zerg knows about the bunker rush that is very damaging, he could do swan pool first and the terran would be sold or conversely 3 rack vs swanpool first now is the zerg sold and you can always defend against choke vs bunker rush. P vs Z players can react quickly to what they are playing the idea is fast exploration. are excuses.

The strategy, the sense of the game does not change much rvsr and mus. Early exploration is more important. A prottos can go to tech early either vs terran or zerg, it doesn't change at all be rvsr orpredetermined M/U's.
 In predetermined M/U's if it hurts more to the toss with  usually midbuild does because the counterpart is easier by know.

In high level the pairings is more fair and it would be good to try it but play rvsr is more fun.

As for the map, bxer is right that space 3.0 would be the most indicated to avoid abuser spot terran up, a rule would be to prohibit confrontation Terra ariiba spot 1 and 11 vs spot 3 and 9 if they play with the original map but I still don't like it. because the emotion of doing the game is lost again.  Too i agree with cole don’t like vetoing
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 01:28:43 pm
My point is the fact that is is even possible, on a spot that is already exposed to abuse, is ridicilous. There are too ways to abuse is my point. Ways of abuse specific to the spawning locations. That in itself is a HUGE reason to fix it and make the map more balanced and stop clinging onto imbalance as if it BELONGS.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 01:30:03 pm
Premier another reference for u https://www.starcraftworld.net/index.php?topic=1048.msg10907#msg10907
Watch the replay attached in this post .

Don’t cry storm from above when it’s avoidable

Now tel me I’m right plz cuz u did not know this trick
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 01:32:41 pm
Premier, 

We’re all well aware of the map issues and abuses for it. Yes the map is clearly the issue. As I’ve been saying for the last few posts. I also don’t believe you made this map for giggles, as witnessed on webbot this morning after you made the map you commented in channel to Fainer that this is the best map you’ve created and you blew your own mind lol. Hard to believe anything you say.

Port,

I already told you why Scan likes it. He’s a low player, and they pick matchups and have forever. Which works for low money, it doesn’t work for fastest however. He has great knowledge of low maps and very little of fastest. He admits that by saying “I’m new to to fastest”. Of course he’s going to resort to his knowledge of low money and lean to a way that favours his experiences there.

As I also stated earlier host a tournament of this format to try out now and see the outcome. Don’t look to try something new for the finals. I’ll bring back the sports analogy. When leagues bring in rule changes, they get tested out at lower levels first before being implemented into the pros. They test out their ideas before putting it in, which to me makes sense. They don’t just put in a new rule and be like well damn that really sucked. Too bad we ruined an NBA finals with that change. Oh well.

If you want to be an adult, be able to take criticism with a grain of salt. Again I’m sorry, but if you’re going to make comments such as you did expect to be criticized.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 01:39:49 pm
Premier, 

We’re all well aware of the map issues and abuses for it. Yes the map is clearly the issue. As I’ve been saying for the last few posts. I also don’t believe you made this map for giggles, as witnessed on webbot this morning after you made the map you commented in channel to Fainer that this is the best map you’ve created and you blew your own mind lol. Hard to believe anything you say.

Port,

I already told you why Scan likes it. He’s a low player, and they pick matchups and have forever. Which works for low money, it doesn’t work for fastest however. He has great knowledge of low maps and very little of fastest. He admits that by saying “I’m new to to fastest”. Of course he’s going to resort to his knowledge of low money and lean to a way that favours his experiences there.

As I also stated earlier host a tournament of this format to try out now and see the outcome. Don’t look to try something new for the finals. I’ll bring back the sports analogy. When leagues bring in rule changes, they get tested out at lower levels first before being implemented into the pros. They test out their ideas before putting it in, which to me makes sense. They don’t just put in a new rule and be like well damn that really sucked. Too bad we ruined an NBA finals with that change. Oh well.

If you want to be an adult, be able to take criticism with a grain of salt. Again I’m sorry, but if you’re going to make comments such as you did expect to be criticized.

Fainer and I have been making ridicilous maps for months now and we always, usually in pm, call the other out claiming "i am better than you" "check my new best map". It's a fun little thing we got going. What you read, was sarcasm. As once he joined my lobby we just spammed XD and LOL for a full minute.

Also, SCW is as lower league as it gets. The consequences of change that apply to major and premier leagues are way more severe than any consequences a small lower league like SCW will face.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 01:40:40 pm
Premier did u watch the reps ? Did you learn something ?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 01:45:58 pm
But it’s the premier fastest league, as it’s the only fastest league. So it’s our premier league by default.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 01:50:55 pm
But it’s the premier fastest league, as it’s the only fastest league. So it’s our premier league by default.

But with none of the large scale consequences, which was my point. And no, it is not the only fastest League. You are correct in saying it is the only fastest league ON THIS MAP and with this specific format.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 01:55:56 pm
You say it doesn't work for fastest while presenting no evidence. Like Fainer said, the Korean fastest scene uses the predetermined format for their tournaments and they have by far higher caliber players than the West.

And I agree, a test tournament with the predetermined M/U format should be hosted before implementing it into the finals. Again that is why I created this thread a month before the tournament; to see how everyone feels about the idea.

And your sports analogies are way off base. First off no one is a 'pro' here, we don't get paid millions of dollars a year to do this, we aren't broadcasted on a major networks, we aren't talked about by the general public.... I could go on forever. This is a small community with a select few who even play this game. You really think the NBA would implement a rule change right before the finals? This isn't the NBA my friend this is starcraft.

And I have been taking criticism with more than a grain of salt, I've been open to all opinions made by anyone and responded respectfully.

It is you who resorted to name calling; something that children tend to do.



Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 02:03:31 pm
talking about children.
(https://i.imgur.com/UjYs2RN.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/wqjQ2Y0.png)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 02:05:39 pm
I give up. Just a waste of time trying to talk to you two. Do whatever you like
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: tonyG on April 23, 2020, 02:08:47 pm
so much passion. I vote RvR on Styler Korean Style FMP map! change it upppppppp 8)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 02:10:01 pm
so much passion. I vote RvR on Styler Korean Style FMP map! change it upppppppp 8)

word up!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 02:16:33 pm
Remember Your talking to premier and Newport here
Both 200+ apm players who know everything about the game
But both can only achieve C rank. 🤔
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 02:38:47 pm
Remember Your talking to premier and Newport here
Both 200+ apm players who know everything about the game
But both can only achieve C rank. 🤔
I don't feel I hold any merit because of these but just to disprove your factually wrong claim.
(https://i.imgur.com/XP4Csy9.png)
Win vs an A Ranker.
(https://i.imgur.com/oDutGRO.png)
Win vs Thanks who is frequent S, A or K rank and multiple season winner.
(https://i.imgur.com/v7YVdy0.png)
Win vs Resoud, A rank.
(https://i.imgur.com/BCvN2n2.png)
set vs gus who is A consistently A rank.
(https://i.imgur.com/V2bfJ3B.png)

Got a bunch more reps lying around from smurfs and Europe vs A rank players. I don't play the league much or at all for precisely one reason. I dislike the map. I like the league but I won't play a map I dislike.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 02:42:36 pm
It's comical how a simple format change on a dying game can completely flip some people's lives upside down.

I feel some of you have lost your perspective on life. This is ridiculous.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 02:48:50 pm
It's comical how a simple format change on a dying game can completely flip some people's lives upside down.

I feel some of you have lost your perspective on life. This is ridiculous.

Further proof of how stupid and without a clue you really are.

Gets mad for bringing a real life analogy into this thread saying it’s just starcraft, and then not a post later you bring “real life” into it yourself. Hilarious
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 02:55:04 pm
@ Kon

You need to calm down, there is no need to get mad and start calling people names.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 02:59:20 pm
Cole was throwing a tantrum back when I suggested the top 3-5 tournament back in the day too.

Kon I mostly agree with you on that it is mostly the map. However, Protoss is amongst koreans on the korean map still considered by far the strongest race. And that is on a map that is far more balanced than the SCW Map. While yes, still map related, it is unrelated to the specific imbalances the SCW map has. Fastest inherently has an imbalance that favors protoss. SCW map stacks a bunch of new imbalances on top. Some format changes to allow MU selection with some rules to avoid unfair RNG won't hurt or set the league back in any way whatsoever. A fixed map would be better first step. If after the fixed map the imbalance is still experienced, then it would be a logical next step to contemplate an alternative MU format. Being able to play a MU only ONCE will determine who is trully the best as people will be FORCED to display a diverse mastery over all three races.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on April 23, 2020, 03:49:49 pm
As if they didn't know kon and kokane stubborn and reluctant with the changes. For them what they say is the absolute truth. You can simply discuss the idea and draw conclusions, they gave you idea, perfect now to expect other people's opinions.

Also as that zvsp trick is good I have already done it before even so it is an abusive position
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 23, 2020, 04:07:34 pm
As if they didn't know kon and kokane stubborn and reluctant with the changes. For them what they say is the absolute truth. You can simply discuss the idea and draw conclusions, they gave you idea, perfect now to expect other people's opinions.

Also as that zvsp trick is good I have already done it before even so it is an abusive position

I’ve literally said change the map about 4 times in this thread. Another bright mind joins in...

I’m open for change that will improve balance. Having set matchups does not improve balance or the game of fastest.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 04:17:33 pm
As if they didn't know kon and kokane stubborn and reluctant with the changes. For them what they say is the absolute truth. You can simply discuss the idea and draw conclusions, they gave you idea, perfect now to expect other people's opinions.

Also as that zvsp trick is good I have already done it before even so it is an abusive position

I’ve literally said change the map about 4 times in this thread. Another bright mind joins in...

I’m open for change that will improve balance. Having set matchups does not improve balance or the game of fastest.

I would argue being able to play a match up once definitely brings some balance to best of series, if not a sense of control over the race you play.
You can play each race 3 times against 3 different races in a best of series. While having the MU preset in a pre-determined order is stale and not the best option, a better option would be the higher ranked player picks MU for the first match, and from then onwards loser decides the MU for the following match.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 05:20:38 pm
@ Teres

That could work.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 05:30:03 pm
No offence but reading you and premier talk about sc is comical,

Just run the who plays who aspect of the tournament and leave it at that

Who even complained about rvr format in the first place?? Nobody
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on April 23, 2020, 05:31:47 pm
haha, for once i have to agree with this fatboy cole…. why are you trying to change Everything so hard??
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 05:35:44 pm
I have messaged the top 5 current players and am awaiting their responses.

I will make a decision based on their decisions and the poll results.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 05:44:42 pm
haha, for once i have to agree with this fatboy cole…. why are you trying to change Everything so hard??

Not tryinng to change anything. This is merely a discussion of what if or could this or that. Most of the things here are suggestions some people just want to voice given newbport started the subject. He is asking what people want. Huge difference.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 05:50:10 pm
So when someone gets top 5 that isn’t there now, they don’t get a say?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 23, 2020, 05:52:07 pm
haha, for once i have to agree with this fatboy cole…. why are you trying to change Everything so hard??

Not tryinng to change anything. This is merely a discussion of what if or could this or that. Most of the things here are suggestions some people just want to voice given newbport started the subject. He is asking what people want. Huge difference.

and no one wants the changes except you and newbport lol. newbport has been around for a while iirc, so im not sure why all of a sudden he feels the need to change the map / structure of the league. you can all go play on korea 24/7 with them if you dislike the map so much.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 05:57:42 pm
haha, for once i have to agree with this fatboy cole…. why are you trying to change Everything so hard??

Not tryinng to change anything. This is merely a discussion of what if or could this or that. Most of the things here are suggestions some people just want to voice given newbport started the subject. He is asking what people want. Huge difference.

and no one wants the changes except you and newbport lol. newbport has been around for a while iirc, so im not sure why all of a sudden he feels the need to change the map / structure of the league. you can all go play on korea 24/7 with them if you dislike the map so much.
I already am.
I've already built contacts with korean low tourney hosts featuring pros and semi pros, fastest streamers and players to organize and fund projects. I've also set up a new network of amateur/semi/pro replay sharing with non koreans for English casting. I've been doing a lot of stuff with koreans.

Also, there are actually quite some people who were positive about ideas and suggestions to improve balance
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 23, 2020, 06:02:01 pm
The whole premise behind this idea was seeing tournaments go in the favor of those who have better M/U's.

As I've said before I'm just trying to see a more fair tournament with the factor of luck taken out.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 06:21:39 pm
Skill trumps luck majority of the time
I’ve never had a problem winning a mid z or mid t game.  Just you guys cuz you onLy can play Protoss

Premier we already get that u have a hard on for Koreans . You even said yourself before you deleted the post “korean dick tastes better”
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 06:57:37 pm
Skill trumps luck majority of the time
I’ve never had a problem winning a mid z or mid t game.  Just you guys cuz you onLy can play Protoss

Premier we already get that u have a hard on for Koreans . You even said yourself before you deleted the post “korean dick tastes better”

Yup. I said that that.
It was in response to someone saying "stop sucking korean dick". I edited the comment to simply "no" because I felt that conveyed the exact same message with a single word.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 23, 2020, 07:19:53 pm
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 08:06:01 pm
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe

why don't you go back to asking me to host you a match for money again? Or again ask me to buy you a computer? Or again ask me to let you smurf into one of my tournaments? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 tournament for you with my money? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 battle vs koreans with my money? I liked you more back when you were asking me for those things.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on April 23, 2020, 08:30:59 pm
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe

why don't you go back to asking me to host you a match for money again? Or again ask me to buy you a computer? Or again ask me to let you smurf into one of my tournaments? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 tournament for you with my money? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 battle vs koreans with my money? I liked you more back when you were asking me for those things.

I'm down to ask you to host sponmatches vs pros in May. LOL
I wanna see my sponbbang ranking.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 23, 2020, 08:31:13 pm
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe

why don't you go back to asking me to host you a match for money again? Or again ask me to buy you a computer? Or again ask me to let you smurf into one of my tournaments? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 tournament for you with my money? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 battle vs koreans with my money? I liked you more back when you were asking me for those things.

can i get a new computer?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on April 23, 2020, 08:36:35 pm
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe

why don't you go back to asking me to host you a match for money again? Or again ask me to buy you a computer? Or again ask me to let you smurf into one of my tournaments? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 tournament for you with my money? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 battle vs koreans with my money? I liked you more back when you were asking me for those things.

can i get a new computer?

I wanna get a 2nd computer as well! so I can have 2 computers set up for multi-streaming in May
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 23, 2020, 08:53:46 pm
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe

why don't you go back to asking me to host you a match for money again? Or again ask me to buy you a computer? Or again ask me to let you smurf into one of my tournaments? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 tournament for you with my money? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 battle vs koreans with my money? I liked you more back when you were asking me for those things.

can i get a new computer?

I wanna get a 2nd computer as well! so I can have 2 computers set up for multi-streaming in May

nice me too. @teresmajor should i send my paypal info over.. or?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 09:00:44 pm
O I never bought Cole a computer. He asked for it but he's got no shame.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 23, 2020, 09:45:40 pm
O I never bought Cole a computer. He asked for it but he's got no shame.

ya, but u told me u were rich, so whats the process?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 23, 2020, 09:56:29 pm
O I never bought Cole a computer. He asked for it but he's got no shame.

ya, but u told me u were rich, so whats the process?

The process is you buying your own.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Sys6Comp4 on April 23, 2020, 10:01:47 pm
Roooooofl just grabbed my popcorn for this bm fest LMFAO
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 23, 2020, 10:19:00 pm
O I never bought Cole a computer. He asked for it but he's got no shame.

ya, but u told me u were rich, so whats the process?

The process is you buying your own.


but ur rich remember. u got mansion, penthouse all the ladies. hook me up bro i just wanna be as cool as you.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Friendly on April 23, 2020, 11:00:33 pm
O I never bought Cole a computer. He asked for it but he's got no shame.

ya, but u told me u were rich, so whats the process?

The process is you buying your own.


but ur rich remember. u got mansion, penthouse all the ladies. hook me up bro i just wanna be as cool as you.

Korean ladies*
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 12:25:17 am
2 have responded and want an RvR tournament while one is wanting set matchups.

Still waiting on the remaining two players to respond.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 24, 2020, 12:35:46 am
2 have responded and want an RvR tournament while one is wanting set matchups.

Still waiting on the remaining two players to respond.

so you can donate and make up any random ass rules you want? lol asking for a friend.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on April 24, 2020, 02:33:10 am
This is what Corona does. HAHA  :o
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on April 24, 2020, 03:43:14 am
It’s ok if you suck dick , I’m not a homophobe

why don't you go back to asking me to host you a match for money again? Or again ask me to buy you a computer? Or again ask me to let you smurf into one of my tournaments? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 tournament for you with my money? Or again ask me to host a 2vs2 battle vs koreans with my money? I liked you more back when you were asking me for those things.

oh shit lol... shots fired.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: MagicFingers on April 24, 2020, 05:39:56 am
I am actually quite curious about the idea being tested (not for this end of season tournament tho...)

As Newbport said we don't really know how players will adapt since it has never been done.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 06:00:15 am
O I never bought Cole a computer. He asked for it but he's got no shame.

ya, but u told me u were rich, so whats the process?

The process is you buying your own.


but ur rich remember. u got mansion, penthouse all the ladies. hook me up bro i just wanna be as cool as you.

Korean ladies*

Actually, a japanese lady.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 08:26:17 am
2 have responded and want an RvR tournament while one is wanting set matchups.

Still waiting on the remaining two players to respond.

how can the current top 5 decide the vote for you? there is  more than 3 weeks left in the season, the current top 5 will change. do you not understand?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 08:34:35 am
this is a biased decision on ur part when there is clearly more complaints about changing this to set matchups in one day then there was complaints in the last 20 years about rvr.

you and premier both need to hop on the koreans dick, they havent kept the fmp scene alive. The OGs that have participated in league from day 1 have. They are just playing for money, otherwise they wouldnt be here.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 09:08:10 am
If it is Newbport's money, Sword has in the past already decided that whoever puts up the prize(if they're the only one), gets to decide if there's a tournament or not and how the tournament is hosted and with which rules. Least that's what he's told me in the past.

Without (whoever donated the prize) there'd be no prize.

A certain someone is hitting rock bottom in public relations.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 10:07:46 am
Just cuz u don’t play in the league , you do understand that 100% of the games this season are RvR . And every other other season ever
This is the way it’s been on fmp community. If you want to pick go play noob ladder
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 10:11:14 am
You need to be able to play all matchups and races . Just cuz AI is crying cuz he can’t play Zerg .

Again premier ur input is irrelevant . You don’t even participate
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 10:26:17 am
@ DryFly

There is absolutely no reason for you to get as upset as you have over a simple format change suggestion. I know you place a lot of importance on this game but there is no reason to act the way you have.

For some reason it seems only you and Kon just can't stand any change, even if it's' just a suggestion. This simple suggestion has completely flipped your guys' world's upside down. My premise behind this all was for a more fair tournament. The league is not owned by you two, if you want any say in the rules and format of the tournament; donate your own money.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 10:52:27 am
Like I said before . Your only job is to organize who plays who and set times. Not to enforce pre determined matchups. (Which u still think creates balance) rvr is a factor of balance for this map


But trying to explain to u and premier about sc is almost impossible. You both lack knowledge on the topic.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 10:59:34 am
having RNG determine who gets favorable match up on top of favorable spawns is not really balance. There is a sense of balance in that either of the two participants can get lucky on the draw, but whoever gets the short end of it has a lower chance to win. Random = not Balance. Balance is equal footing.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 24, 2020, 11:01:48 am
@ DryFly

There is absolutely no reason for you to get as upset as you have over a simple format change suggestion. I know you place a lot of importance on this game but there is no reason to act the way you have.

For some reason it seems only you and Kon just can't stand any change, even if it's' just a suggestion. This simple suggestion has completely flipped your guys' world's upside down. My premise behind this all was for a more fair tournament. The league is not owned by you two, if you want any say in the rules and format of the tournament; donate your own money.

New day same stupidity continues to flow.

How can you say I don’t want change when I’m advocating for a god damn map change? That’s the biggest change possible. It’s like you can only process certain words or you read what you want to. And for the love of god stop saying your moronic ideas have the capability of flipping anyone’s world around. You know what’s flipping peoples worlds around? COVID-19. Not your pathetic attempt to make things “fair” as you clearly haven’t got a clue.

If all it takes to have power here, I’ll gladly donate to sword and run my own tournament without you Korean pleasing noobs.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 11:03:49 am
And premier you forget i can see website ips to see ur accounts that vote. And also I can see how many replays you download of mine. Closet fan?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 11:04:21 am
I have enforced nothing. There is a reason I made this thread, a poll, and messaged the top 5; to see what the community thinks of this idea.

If you and Kon were to have responded in a more mature and positive fashion and not resorted to childish behavior I feel none of this would have happened.

If your end game goal is to increase league activity you should reconsider how you treat and talk to those who donate money and are actively trying to keep it alive.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 11:06:35 am
At this point serious changes don’t attract new players , it deters players that have always played fmp. Look how many people quit when it went bw. The only way the league survives is to keep the same players who have always played fmp happy .

There is no argument around this
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 11:07:39 am
And don’t say it stops Koreans from coming . Cuz I will quote priemer 100 times saying it’s not the map or league . It’s the turn rate
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 24, 2020, 11:30:36 am
I have enforced nothing. There is a reason I made this thread, a poll, and messaged the top 5; to see what the community thinks of this idea.

If you and Kon were to have responded in a more mature and positive fashion and not resorted to childish behavior I feel none of this would have happened.

If your end game goal is to increase league activity you should reconsider how you treat and talk to those who donate money and are actively trying to keep it alive.

If you fully read my first response, there’s zero disrespect or childish fashions. It started when you continued to make false claims and literally stupid comments. I’m sorry you can’t handle the truth and some facts and having your idea be shut down. Grow up.

We’re also clearly not the only ones who think things should stay the way they are. According to your poll and posts in this thread by Mandingo, 911, Medic, and Steal. The only people I see advocating for this change is two Koreans, Scan and Thanks who have been here about a cup of coffee and Skyhigh. Plus you two Korean lovers. Skyhigh is a low player as well so again of course he’s going to side with rules that favour low players.

Also as Cole mentioned if you think this top five is what finishes the season is wrong. This time last season Advocate and Grouch were in it. So you’re potentially taking the advice of how a tournament should be played by the people who won’t even be in it. You’re not in a position to give this advice or make these changes never mind.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 11:45:28 am
@ KoN

Again you need to calm down.

There is no reason to get so upset.
 

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: koN on April 24, 2020, 11:52:43 am
@ KoN

Again you need to calm down.

There is no reason to get so upset.

Again another useless post by you. I assume just conceding you’re wrong by responding by this.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 11:53:39 am
And premier you forget i can see website ips to see ur accounts that vote. And also I can see how many replays you download of mine. Closet fan?

I voted only with this account. I have downloaded some of your replays to cast them, or to watch how you lose or beat specific people. As I've said many times before, you're a pretty good player but a shit person. 99% of the replays I watch are non scw replays.

And don’t say it stops Koreans from coming . Cuz I will quote priemer 100 times saying it’s not the map or league . It’s the turn rate

It is Map, turnrate, and timezone and language related. I've heard different reasons from many. A few of them also left because of the toxic behaviour.

@Kon.
Mandingo and Jose([zoo]rillo) have consistently ended in the top 5. Scan is going to end in the top 5. So while you're right that not all of them will end up in the top 5, it is likely 4 of the 5 currently in the top 5 will end up in the top 5.

And Kon, the issue Newbport has is that you're repeatedly resorting to fallacies that are uncalled for and don't add anything to the discussion except fuel duality and adversity.
Here's a list. Read through it and then read your own posts again. You'll find you're pretty much using these in every single reply you've written.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 12:07:33 pm
Ok premier let’s be civil

Explain to me how zErg gains an advantage when the opponent knows he is vs a pre determined Zerg
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 12:15:01 pm
@ Kon

By the length of your responses I can see how distressed this whole situation is making you.

I'm choosing to take the high road in hopes that this whole thing will cool down.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 12:25:13 pm
Newport ur not even addressing the facts he or myself are presenting . Ur just replying Calm down.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 12:26:38 pm
It’s ur forum topic ur idea . U should be able to defend ur side. But I don’t think you can 🤔
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 12:26:43 pm
Ok premier let’s be civil

Explain to me how zErg gains an advantage when the opponent knows he is vs a pre determined Zerg

Depends on the MU.
Can low ball their choke, can afford to scout side spot over middle(no midbuild toss if enemy is terran), can neglect 3 larva(in the case there's no bbs). Can go for one of the early game builds Scan sometimes does where he goes speedling burrow into lurker without a choke, which only works vs terran and not vs protoss. Etc. There's a lot of build orders that are specifically catered towards ZvT moreso than ZvP. The fact a lot of people lack the skill to pull of a lot of early ZvT builds is moreso a fault in the players, and less so in the predetermined MU pick.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 12:37:19 pm
The Zerg has to make lings and a sunk at there choke reguardless to stop a unit slipping in.

a 2 rack bunk rush is one of the most op strats vs a Zerg if scouted fast which they will cuz the Terran will only be scouting chokes
The only risk in this strat was if the opponent was Protoss

The Terran will also go right into fact and starpor tech a lot faster cuz no thread of zealot Harass

Zvp the Zerg will stil have to sunk choke and ling incase of zealot run by, where the p can go into fast drop or triple nex with no wasting on a choke or cannons . Cuz the threat of a few lings wouldn’t do almost no damage to the toss
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 12:38:35 pm
The biggest advantage for z is the opponent not knowing there Zerg until they are scouted
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 12:42:19 pm
I have presented my points in a civil and mature manner and stand by them.

I've decided not to further engage in this BM fest/childish debate.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 12:46:16 pm
But you came out saying picked matchups is the solution for balance . We argued and stated facts how it isn’t. It’s more the map . And you replied calm down
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 12:57:14 pm
Most of the above mentioned things almost never happen in an environment with a higher skill level, aka the Korean scene. They have far less issues with all of the things you mentioned despite prepicking. If you want I can send you my entire database so you can see for yourself.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 01:02:29 pm
I was engaging and stating my case until you an Kon started BM'ing me.

After that the debate was over and still is.

It's' funny how someone who cares to claim about league activity will BM someone who has donated multiple times.

Real mature.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 01:04:14 pm
Also, picking mu and being allowed a mu once is purely intended to avoid unfair match up distribution, much less about rushes and cheeses.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on April 24, 2020, 01:15:33 pm
This whole idea that you need to play the league or rank top 5 to give some input on balance is a bit ridiculous. I can understand if it were random noobs who have been playing Starcraft for a week but lets be honest here, most of us have been playing this game for unhealthy amounts of time, enough to point out the obvious flaws of a map.

Most balance teams out there are below average, some don't even play their own game. Name 1 game where the game developers are progamers, there isn't one. It doesn't take a genius to realize how horrible this map is.

Match up, meh it's whatever, honestly I can deal with a protoss relatively well. Match ups still mostly come down to gameplay. But positioning plays such a huge role. That's the one thing I would love to see this league change. The god damn map... it's aids... seriously. I don't play it but im just saying, there is better maps out there.

I have a question for the people who so badly refuse to accept a more well rounded map. What is the real reasoning? What bums you guys out so much about the korean map?



Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 01:26:15 pm
What map would be the fairest for the tournament?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 01:42:04 pm
The map that the whole season was played on, if u want to change map it has to be done on day one on the season , Or make a private tournament outside of scw 17 season.

U can’t just have everyone play one map then have a complete new one to decide the season winner .

Where is ur logic ?

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 24, 2020, 01:48:10 pm
What map would be the fairest for the tournament?

4 corner spawn with bigger choke size.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 01:50:44 pm
What map would be the fairest for the tournament?

4 corner spawn with bigger choke size.
Ur going backwards..
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on April 24, 2020, 01:55:44 pm
What map would be the fairest for the tournament?

4 corner spawn with bigger choke size.

Bored never will work
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 24, 2020, 02:26:33 pm
do you really think the Koreans would even play our league if money wasn’t in involved?  Stop trying to favor them. Look at the players who are loyal to the league regardless of money. This should be ur focus
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on April 24, 2020, 04:21:20 pm
Like who? Who is loyal to the league?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 24, 2020, 10:27:20 pm
it is 2020 and you should have realised the league map is bad
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 24, 2020, 10:35:51 pm
I made a 4 player map that focuses on nerfing midbuild protoss and removing spot abuse entirely. It looks a bit wonky but I think people can get used to it. It is also something people can play just for the sake of playing fastest on a unique new map.

looks nice but you forgot most fastest players are dumb
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on April 25, 2020, 12:48:24 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 25, 2020, 03:21:39 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

or we can continue playing like we always have and you can come over here to win your months rent, or fuck off? that seems pretty appropriate to me.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on April 25, 2020, 05:11:27 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

or we can continue playing like we always have and you can come over here to win your months rent, or fuck off? that seems pretty appropriate to me.

I honestly don't care either of the sides. Im putting down my opinion in this thread and all of the sudden you trash talking to me? I dont get your shit and i dont need to be treated like the way you think, dog.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on April 25, 2020, 05:44:21 pm
Scan ignore annoying words. Good advice about maps is appreciated since kon is willing to change the map.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 25, 2020, 05:51:45 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

there are many maps like that but people dont play them

scan, you have to understand that these dumb players have played only one map for 20 years so dont expect them to play on another map even if it is 99% the same

most, if not all, fastest map players think they are gods of starcraft and it hasnt changed since 2004ish

it took fastest map players 20 years to learn how not to suck on a simple plain map and now you want them to play on a different map? come back in 2040
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: GiantBeetle on April 25, 2020, 07:10:39 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

there are many maps like that but people dont play them

scan, you have to understand that these dumb players have played only one map for 20 years so dont expect them to play on another map even if it is 99% the same

most, if not all, fastest map players think they are gods of starcraft and it hasnt changed since 2004ish

it took fastest map players 20 years to learn how not to suck on a simple plain map and now you want them to play on a different map? come back in 2040

Insider info: direwolf (aka heavymachinegun) had a girlfriend who cheated on him with a FMP player, so now he dedicates his life to trolling the SCW forums and telling everyone how bad fastest is
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on April 25, 2020, 07:39:42 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

there are many maps like that but people dont play them

scan, you have to understand that these dumb players have played only one map for 20 years so dont expect them to play on another map even if it is 99% the same

most, if not all, fastest map players think they are gods of starcraft and it hasnt changed since 2004ish

it took fastest map players 20 years to learn how not to suck on a simple plain map and now you want them to play on a different map? come back in 2040

xD
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 25, 2020, 08:26:20 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

there are many maps like that but people dont play them

scan, you have to understand that these dumb players have played only one map for 20 years so dont expect them to play on another map even if it is 99% the same

most, if not all, fastest map players think they are gods of starcraft and it hasnt changed since 2004ish

it took fastest map players 20 years to learn how not to suck on a simple plain map and now you want them to play on a different map? come back in 2040

Insider info: direwolf (aka heavymachinegun) had a girlfriend who cheated on him with a FMP player, so now he dedicates his life to trolling the SCW forums and telling everyone how bad fastest is

what do you mean by insider info? i forgot my password so i made a new account but i never knew i had fanboys
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 25, 2020, 09:10:01 pm
How about editing a Korean fastest map blocked high ground abuse, 12 and 6 OC small stacked of all vespene geysers to have extra spaces for the base?


OR


How about editing a foreign western map more narrowed choke for 12 and 6 and fix 12, 3, 6, 9 spawning locations from getting eco harassed easily? the bases are kinda too near to the side of the base and can be easily harassed IMO. Also, minerals should be at the bottom side of the base to make it balanced eco in the beginning.

or we can continue playing like we always have and you can come over here to win your months rent, or fuck off? that seems pretty appropriate to me.

I honestly don't care either of the sides. Im putting down my opinion in this thread and all of the sudden you trash talking to me? I dont get your shit and i dont need to be treated like the way you think, dog.

shut your little broke korean ass up. fuck outta here.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on April 25, 2020, 11:17:49 pm
Just fucking stop trying to change stuff, fuck sake. If you guys wanna fucking play a korean map fucking go to Asia server.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 25, 2020, 11:39:37 pm
Just fucking stop trying to change stuff, fuck sake. If you guys wanna fucking play a korean map fucking go to Asia server.

preachhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. go play in premiers asia tournys if you dont like the current format.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 26, 2020, 01:18:56 am
Just fucking stop trying to change stuff, fuck sake. If you guys wanna fucking play a korean map fucking go to Asia server.

give this man a medal

the map is bad, the players are dumb (some maphack lovers) but it is what it is

play or leave
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 26, 2020, 06:52:18 am
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on April 26, 2020, 08:47:50 am
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

Nope. Full of grown men with the mind set of a 13 year old. Hate to resort to insults but it's shocking to know most of you guys are over 30.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on April 26, 2020, 09:20:18 am
32
<--
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 26, 2020, 01:17:44 pm
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

the majority of people came in here saying this is a stupid idea and you and your little fan boy newbport wouldnt listen. go host your shitty little korean tourneys and take these kids with you. the league will live on with or without you and the two korean kids who come over to win their months rent.

also direwolf who the fuck are you? random ass kid go away.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: MagicFingers on April 26, 2020, 01:48:01 pm
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

the majority of people came in here saying this is a stupid idea and you and your little fan boy newbport wouldnt listen. go host your shitty little korean tourneys and take these kids with you. the league will live on with or without you and the two korean kids who come over to win their months rent.

also direwolf who the fuck are you? random ass kid go away.

Actually if you look at the vote, 1/3 of the people found the idea interesting. (I voted for rvr) I have to agree that it's unfair to change rules in the middle of a seasons, specially for final tournament.

Still I think it's hard to judge this idea without testing it, maybe people will come to enjoy it (or not).

Also Newbport was keen to listen but you guys after stating your point just kept trolling and bm'ing him. Kinda ruin the discussion
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 26, 2020, 01:50:25 pm
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

the majority of people came in here saying this is a stupid idea and you and your little fan boy newbport wouldnt listen. go host your shitty little korean tourneys and take these kids with you. the league will live on with or without you and the two korean kids who come over to win their months rent.

also direwolf who the fuck are you? random ass kid go away.

Actually if you look at the vote, 1/3 of the people found the idea interesting. (I voted for rvr) I have to agree that it's unfair to change rules in the middle of a seasons, specially for final tournament.

Still I think it's hard to judge this idea without testing it, maybe people will come to enjoy it (or not).

Also Newbport was keen to listen but you guys after stating your point just kept trolling and bm'ing him. Kinda ruin the discussion

dude donates $200 and wants to change the entire dynamic of the league. it doesn't make any sense and it would have been easier for him to just keep his little pennies and fuck off with stupid ideas.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: LivE.SworD on April 26, 2020, 02:31:04 pm
Guys settle down. Whatever happens this tournament is not in any way the future of SCW, its just an experiment to try something different and see how it plays out. We should be able to have people shake things up a bit once in a while without causing widespread panic
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DryFly on April 26, 2020, 06:27:49 pm
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

the majority of people came in here saying this is a stupid idea and you and your little fan boy newbport wouldnt listen. go host your shitty little korean tourneys and take these kids with you. the league will live on with or without you and the two korean kids who come over to win their months rent.

also direwolf who the fuck are you? random ass kid go away.

Actually if you look at the vote, 1/3 of the people found the idea interesting. (I voted for rvr) I have to agree that it's unfair to change rules in the middle of a seasons, specially for final tournament.

Still I think it's hard to judge this idea without testing it, maybe people will come to enjoy it (or not).

Also Newbport was keen to listen but you guys after stating your point just kept trolling and bm'ing him. Kinda ruin the discussion

premier voted 9 times for set matchups. the votes arent realistic
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 26, 2020, 06:31:12 pm
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

the majority of people came in here saying this is a stupid idea and you and your little fan boy newbport wouldnt listen. go host your shitty little korean tourneys and take these kids with you. the league will live on with or without you and the two korean kids who come over to win their months rent.

also direwolf who the fuck are you? random ass kid go away.

Actually if you look at the vote, 1/3 of the people found the idea interesting. (I voted for rvr) I have to agree that it's unfair to change rules in the middle of a seasons, specially for final tournament.

Still I think it's hard to judge this idea without testing it, maybe people will come to enjoy it (or not).

Also Newbport was keen to listen but you guys after stating your point just kept trolling and bm'ing him. Kinda ruin the discussion

premier voted 9 times for set matchups. the votes arent realistic

Premier ur pathetic if u made 9 accounts to vote.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 26, 2020, 08:37:58 pm
As I've already said before, I voted once. I am not as petty as a certain few individuals here. Also not nearly as invested in this as you might think. I am not playing. I only have issue with the narrow minded crusade against change and the racist toxcity.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on April 26, 2020, 11:47:45 pm
will there ever be a discussion on scw forums where people behave like normal human beings and not like lizard brain cavemen?

the majority of people came in here saying this is a stupid idea and you and your little fan boy newbport wouldnt listen. go host your shitty little korean tourneys and take these kids with you. the league will live on with or without you and the two korean kids who come over to win their months rent.

also direwolf who the fuck are you? random ass kid go away.

Actually if you look at the vote, 1/3 of the people found the idea interesting. (I voted for rvr) I have to agree that it's unfair to change rules in the middle of a seasons, specially for final tournament.

Still I think it's hard to judge this idea without testing it, maybe people will come to enjoy it (or not).

Also Newbport was keen to listen but you guys after stating your point just kept trolling and bm'ing him. Kinda ruin the discussion

^^

Guys get a bit dramatic over a suggestion. The dude pulling money out of his pocket to give you guys another reason to play and instead of being grateful gets backlash and bm'd haha!. Gotta love this community.

Don't even think regular map players get as much financial support by their community as fastest does. You guys don't seem to appreciate what you have, it's gonna hurt you bad when the people trying to support your favorite hobby is gone.

Yes, we get it, it's the internet but god damn lol.. tone it down a bit it isn't that serious.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on April 27, 2020, 01:48:07 am
What did we have Before the League? Clans, what will we have when theres no League? Clans.... and CW
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 27, 2020, 03:27:13 am
What did we have Before the League? Clans, what will we have when theres no League? Clans.... and CW

you mean good old hackers vs hackers? the best hiding the maphack win 2004-2009
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on April 27, 2020, 10:01:33 pm
What did we have Before the League? Clans, what will we have when theres no League? Clans.... and CW

If you can't admit that the league is literally what is keeping this community intact then idk what to tell you.

Starcraft lost a shit load of players when VGT died. One of the biggest hits fastest community took. A TON of players quit when VGT was shut down. I'm sure some old timers out here remembers that nightmare.

Clan wars? Who are you kidding here? There is like 2 clans alive... literally... I wouldn't even consider them clans. There is like 3 active players per "clan" alive ATM? A lot of the games played in the league are between members. What do you think is going to happen, new players are going to start flourishing out of thin air and multiple clans will be created?

You're being unrealistic. Talking about a time when starcraft was EXTREMELY active.

Low key, would love to see sword shut this site down for a month just for the sake of humbling some people around here. Would bet most of you would be begging for somebody, anybody to start a league and how starcraft sucks now without a league.

If this league died I can guarentee it would be the end of N/A fastest.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 27, 2020, 11:04:09 pm
a very logical chain of events would be:

1. community dying?
2. hold onto players
3. find new players
4. where are the new players?
5. Where is a huge community of fastest players?
6. bait them in?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: tonyG on April 28, 2020, 09:56:47 am
the latinoamerica community put on a fastest tournament last night. Evil Vs Jose finals and Evil got PvZ first 3 games than PvT. What could have been a really entertaining finals was ruined by one person getting P every game. Corner P vs Mid spot Z/T. This can be partly avoided (cant control not getting a corner spot) by TRYING out this pick vs pick format. If it sucks ass because people have OP builds in some m/u's, we just scrap it and go back to praying for P.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 28, 2020, 11:08:11 am
the latinoamerica community put on a fastest tournament last night. Evil Vs Jose finals and Evil got PvZ first 3 games than PvT. What could have been a really entertaining finals was ruined by one person getting P every game. Corner P vs Mid spot Z/T. This can be partly avoided (cant control not getting a corner spot) by TRYING out this pick vs pick format. If it sucks ass because people have OP builds in some m/u's, we just scrap it and go back to praying for P.

got a link?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: tonyG on April 28, 2020, 11:10:15 am
https://www.facebook.com/StarCraftAllServers/videos/2690612734556405/
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Medic on April 28, 2020, 01:03:45 pm
a very logical chain of events would be:

1. community dying?
2. hold onto players
3. find new players
4. where are the new players?
5. Where is a huge community of fastest players?
6. bait them in?

you are acting like 3 koreans coming over is making the league super active. the league has been doing fine for quite some time now. no prize pool is needed to keep the league moderately active.

+++++++ look at tonys post too. from the beginning we have said the idea is terrible and you just wouldn't listen.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: MagicFingers on April 28, 2020, 02:20:32 pm
Quote
+++++++ look at tonys post too. from the beginning we have said the idea is terrible and you just wouldn't listen.

From your post, i've more seen stuff like this :  'fuck off', 'fuck this idea', 'fuck everyone that doesnt approve what I say',  'fuck stupid korean sucker', 'fuck the fucking fuckers' ...
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on April 29, 2020, 02:01:54 am
Well those fucks are mine, and i stand by that. So fuck off.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: direwolf on April 29, 2020, 09:51:05 pm
without the top 3 koreans and the top 3 peruvians (and maybe some canadian guy), there would be no league
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: premierrrrr on April 30, 2020, 10:42:33 am
without the top 3 koreans and the top 3 peruvians (and maybe some canadian guy), there would be no league

without the people who play over 80-100 games a season, there would indeed be no league.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 10, 2020, 03:30:11 pm
After messaging all players that have been in the top 5 since this thread was made and reviewing the poll results, it has been decided the end of season tournament M/U format will be RvR.

The same bo7 quarter/semi-finals and bo9 finals format is still intact.

gl hf all!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 10, 2020, 06:04:04 pm
Should gamers like mandingo that are actively dodging j.h, scan and 1v1gooo be even allowed to enter the top 5 tournament?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 10, 2020, 06:23:49 pm
Should gamers like mandingo that are actively dodging j.h, scan and 1v1gooo be even allowed to enter the top 5 tournament?

Yes, imho. I think if anything, the points allocation algorithm should be modified to de-incentivize that behavior (among others), but I think it's fair for people to get to top 5 by any way that is possible.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 10, 2020, 06:37:13 pm
@ Think-Fast

That is a good question. It's sad to see that people are dodging just to ensure that they make the top 5, I wish there was a way to stop it.

Maybe including the top 10 or 8 players instead of 5 for the end of season tournament would help to counter this, I don't know.

But until further notice or a new rule is agreed upon by the community the tournament will include the top 5 players.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 10, 2020, 06:41:29 pm
yes, a top ten would be good
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 10, 2020, 06:56:54 pm
I agree, that would make it a more balanced contest.

I've created a new poll for members to vote on what they think would be best.

Please all submit your vote if you will!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 10, 2020, 07:42:13 pm
Awesome idea! Also, should push out double names in the top ten? If I'm correct, Jose is Rillo and mandingo is makumba.  They should only have one top ten account competing in a tournament.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 10, 2020, 07:46:17 pm
I agree, One top ten account is enough and it gives other players a chance to compete.

We'll have to see what the community thinks about this as well.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 11, 2020, 01:45:01 pm
I agree, One top ten account is enough and it gives other players a chance to compete.

We'll have to see what the community thinks about this as well.

Imho, having two accounts in the top pool is a feat and should be rewarded. I think you completely disincentivize multiple accounts if that's the case. Which just some quick numbers looks like a minimum of 200 league games that would have gone unplayed.

If we want to make it harder, we could implement some kind of point decay system to encourage activity among your rank which would disincentivize leaving an account stagnant in A rank.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 11, 2020, 02:05:00 pm
After reviewing the poll results it has been determined that the end of season tournament will consist of the top 10 players. I will update with details on the format later today.

Another poll will be made to see what the community thinks on multiple accounts in the tournament.

Thanks all and please vote if you will.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 11, 2020, 03:11:49 pm
After reviewing the poll results it has been determined that the end of season tournament will consist of the top 10 players. I will update with details on the format later today.

Another poll will be made to see what the community thinks on multiple accounts in the tournament.

Thanks all and please vote if you will.

10 players is an impossibly high number. We've done it in the past and it was probably the worst tournament to host and manage.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 11, 2020, 03:45:03 pm
@ Premier

It's all good, I don't mind the hassle of hosting it.

I enjoy the whole hosting process and anything to make a better and more invloved contest I am open to.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on May 11, 2020, 04:08:24 pm
The last time a top 8 tournament was held it was very difficult to finish,  now a Top 10 is worse.

I would advise you to do 2 tournaments. The main tournament top 4 or top5 that covers almost all the money and a second tournament for the ranks that were below of them, a top 4 to top 8 a tournament that does not matter if it ends or not or that they eliminate players for non-presentation with a small incentive . I think it would be better that way

Multiple accounts must be allowed in tournament participation. encourages activity.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 11, 2020, 05:40:55 pm
@ Fainer

I appreciate your input but the tournament will include the top 10 players.

I will do everything I can to ensure it finishes as fast as possible.

Also, multiple accounts will be allowed.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 11, 2020, 08:28:58 pm
@ Fainer

I appreciate your input but the tournament will include the top 10 players.

I will do everything I can to ensure it finishes as fast as possible.

Also, multiple accounts will be allowed.

THe problem is moreso the players and their timezones, much less you. korea vs peru are tough time zones to manage because most players also have jobs. Korea vs Western Canada is even worse.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 11, 2020, 08:49:03 pm
That is true but I am still willing to try it.

I will do my best to try and help players find a time to play each other.

I am posting an example bracket to give players an idea of how the tournament will play out.

If anyone has any suggestions to it or anything let me know!

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on May 11, 2020, 08:57:38 pm
The brackets are good xD.

I hope all players are willing to play as many matchs after having played many games per league.

Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 11, 2020, 09:11:31 pm
Sweet, glad that you agree.

I was also considering lowering the number of games by a factor of 2.

Ex. quarter finals as a bo5, semi finals a bo7 and the finals as a bo9.

We'll see how the community feels.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: tonyG on May 12, 2020, 10:20:54 am


I was also considering lowering the number of games by a factor of 2.

Ex. quarter finals as a bo5, semi finals a bo7 and the finals as a bo9.



I think that's a good call.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Purifier on May 12, 2020, 10:31:26 am
According to poll, multiple accounts should not be included
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Simba on May 12, 2020, 11:12:27 am
agreed, if you want a more diverse tournament multiple accounts should not be allowed. The argument that multiple accounts brings activity is kind of overused. For example, the player could play just as many games on their one account. If you want a more competitive tournament, make it one account per person.
It's like saying, "lets put Flash into two brackets into ASL because he plays more than others." Not much justification
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 12, 2020, 11:25:57 am
I think people would be more inclined to allow multiple accounts if they were under the same forum name instead of smurfing
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: TealSilverSteal on May 12, 2020, 01:07:10 pm
Cole will cut his wrist if you do that, HAHAHA!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 12, 2020, 01:35:03 pm
I agree, having multiple accounts in the top 10 should not be allowed.

The main problem I see is getting people to come out and admit which accounts are theirs.

For example it is speculated that Jose is Rillo and Mandingo is Makumba.

If there was concrete solid evidence that this was true or they came out and admitted it I would allow only one account in the tournament.

I just don't see a way of obtaining concrete evidence of users having multiple accounts.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 12, 2020, 04:27:09 pm
agreed, if you want a more diverse tournament multiple accounts should not be allowed. The argument that multiple accounts brings activity is kind of overused. For example, the player could play just as many games on their one account. If you want a more competitive tournament, make it one account per person.
It's like saying, "lets put Flash into two brackets into ASL because he plays more than others." Not much justification

ASL is an invitational tournament, and SCW is a league. The tournament that Newbport is putting on is based off of the results of the SCW League, not an invitational of the best players. It's not a reasonable comparison.

And as for playing just as many games on their one account, it gets to a point where you need to have a secondary account or you'll be in A vs C- & B vs D situations a lot of the time. It's not conducive to the success of the higher ranking player to accept this challenge, and why should it be?

The notion that the argument is overused is a baseless claim and can be discarded.

So at this point the only points are that you want to see more players regardless of the fact they didn't earn a top 10 spot, and that somehow having B players vs S players is going to create more competition. Not sure it adds up.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 12, 2020, 04:39:11 pm
Not sure why you folks all have such a huge problem with smurfs.

No smurfs, no mc, no bw units, no multiple accounts, no rvr, no race picking. I think it can be summed up as "no discomfort". You people seem to want the least amount of resistance possible to achieving B and C rank. Can't see another reasonable explanation for wanting to control so badly the way people play this game.

If Jose and Mandingo shit on everyone enough to have multiple accounts in the top 10, then they are twice (or however many accounts they have) as deserving of a chance to win SCW prize money as anyone else.

Any invitational can have whatever specifications and it seems fine, but it just seems that the league itself should be as fundamentally 'open' as possible.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 12, 2020, 04:43:35 pm
The fact is that if you have several accounts from the same players in the top ten, then its rly not a "top 10 gamers" tournament. Its more like a top 7 or 8. I agree that all that hard work shouldn't go to waste but the top 10 tournament should be top ten different gamers.  The gamers that have multiple accounts in the top ten still get a top ten finish in the seasonal rankings alongside their top ten tournament games.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 12, 2020, 04:48:47 pm
The fact is that if you have several accounts from the same players in the top ten, then its rly not a "top 10 gamers" tournament. Its more like a top 7 or 8. I agree that all that hard work shouldn't go to waste but the top 10 tournament should be top ten different gamers.  The gamers that have multiple accounts in the top ten still get a top ten finish in the seasonal rankings alongside their top ten tournament games.

Might be kind of cool to implement something similar to 'home court advantage' in sports. Like if a user has multiple accounts in the top 10, they're allowed to pick 1 matchup per series vs anyone who only has 1. That way you could reward the nerds like Jose and Mandingo without alienating 14th place "A players" like SaDiStiC)DiaBlO.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 12, 2020, 06:03:30 pm
@ insane

That is a good idea, maybe something like it could be implemented into upcoming seasons.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on May 12, 2020, 08:50:06 pm
agreed, if you want a more diverse tournament multiple accounts should not be allowed. The argument that multiple accounts brings activity is kind of overused. For example, the player could play just as many games on their one account. If you want a more competitive tournament, make it one account per person.
It's like saying, "lets put Flash into two brackets into ASL because he plays more than others." Not much justification

ASL is an invitational tournament, and SCW is a league. The tournament that Newbport is putting on is based off of the results of the SCW League, not an invitational of the best players. It's not a reasonable comparison.

And as for playing just as many games on their one account, it gets to a point where you need to have a secondary account or you'll be in A vs C- & B vs D situations a lot of the time. It's not conducive to the success of the higher ranking player to accept this challenge, and why should it be?

The notion that the argument is overused is a baseless claim and can be discarded.

So at this point the only points are that you want to see more players regardless of the fact they didn't earn a top 10 spot, and that somehow having B players vs S players is going to create more competition. Not sure it adds up.

ASL is not an invitational tournament... You register, check in offline qualifiers and win from there = you advance to ASL stage.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 12, 2020, 09:38:04 pm
ASL is not an invitational tournament... You register, check in offline qualifiers and win from there = you advance to ASL stage.

I see. The information I was referencing was just for the Main Event. Thanks for the clarification.

That said, it's still not a similar format to how SCW works and therefor not an apt comparison.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 12, 2020, 11:36:58 pm
ASL is not an invitational tournament... You register, check in offline qualifiers and win from there = you advance to ASL stage.

I see. The information I was referencing was just for the Main Event. Thanks for the clarification.

That said, it's still not a similar format to how SCW works and therefor not an apt comparison.

Top 4 of previous ASL get "invited" into the next one iirc.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Vulture on May 13, 2020, 09:48:07 am

So at this point the only points are that you want to see more players regardless of the fact they didn't earn a top 10 spot, and that somehow having B players vs S players is going to create more competition. Not sure it adds up.
[/quote]

There are some quality players who are currently b ranked like evil and models who could very much hold their own in the top 10. So yes, it will create competition
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 13, 2020, 11:52:24 am
But did they earn it? Giving someone a spot simply because they're good is unfair to the people who grinded 5 times the amount of games to get top 5.
Look at the match count differential and the difference in points between rank 1-5 and the rest. Difference between rank 1 and 10 is 1600 points and the difference in matches played is 103.
(https://i.imgur.com/wkNu5m9.png)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 13, 2020, 12:37:50 pm
But did they earn it? Giving someone a spot simply because they're good is unfair to the people who grinded 5 times the amount of games to get top 5.
Look at the match count differential and the difference in points between rank 1-5 and the rest. Difference between rank 1 and 10 is 1600 points and the difference in matches played is 103.

Premier, nobody here cares about earning anything. We live in a post-modernist society now where everyone feels entitled to equity at the expense of integrity.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 13, 2020, 12:41:15 pm
There are some quality players who are currently b ranked like evil and models who could very much hold their own in the top 10. So yes, it will create competition

Those players don't qualify to even participate when you remove the double accounts. The B players aren't top 10 without duplicates. Makes your premise seem wholly irrelevant.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 13, 2020, 12:41:47 pm
But did they earn it? Giving someone a spot simply because they're good is unfair to the people who grinded 5 times the amount of games to get top 5.
Look at the match count differential and the difference in points between rank 1-5 and the rest. Difference between rank 1 and 10 is 1600 points and the difference in matches played is 103.

Premier, nobody here cares about earning anything. We live in a post-modernist society now where everyone feels entitled to equity at the expense integrity.

Having equal opportunity =/= equal outcome. Not my tourney so I won't demand or say changes should be made. But I do think it is topic worthy of dicussion whether to include people who didn't earn inclusion at the expense of those who did.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 13, 2020, 12:52:31 pm
Having equal opportunity =/= equal outcome. Not my tourney so I won't demand or say changes should be made. But I do think it is topic worthy of dicussion whether to include people who didn't earn inclusion at the expense of those who did.

I don't agree that it merits discussion. It literally nullifies the importance of the only activity vehicle that we have, the open league. If the league itself can't be the metric for getting into the prize money tournament, then either the league or the tournament is broken. Pick one. (It's probably both, to a degree. Not hate, just fair criticism.)

From an organizational perspective though, I do find it odd that there is so much volatility in how league winners are decided. It makes this feel more like a raffle than a commissioned league. Seems like every season some new person with $200 comes in and gets to exert their ego on everyone else at the expense of logic and fairness, creating an environment none of the participants can plan for.

Some of these might be great ideas, even the past ones that we've tried. But the execution is very unprofessional and certainly not contextually appropriate.

Like we're having polls at the end of a season to decide how to end that season? The lack of foresight to plan this ahead literally every time that it happens is just hilarious to me from an organizational standpoint. From the standpoint of a fan of the game, I appreciate the activity and energy to make this place better. I'm not trying to be a hater. These criticisms of the execution of these ideas is quite fair.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 13, 2020, 01:09:24 pm
Having equal opportunity =/= equal outcome. Not my tourney so I won't demand or say changes should be made. But I do think it is topic worthy of dicussion whether to include people who didn't earn inclusion at the expense of those who did.

I don't agree that it merits discussion. It literally nullifies the importance of the only activity vehicle that we have, the open league. If the league itself can't be the metric for getting into the prize money tournament, then either the league or the tournament is broken. Pick one. (It's probably both, to a degree. Not hate, just fair criticism.)

From an organizational perspective though, I do find it odd that there is so much volatility in how league winners are decided. It makes this feel more like a raffle than a commissioned league. Seems like every season some new person with $200 comes in and gets to exert their ego on everyone else at the expense of logic and fairness, creating an environment none of the participants can plan for.

Some of these might be great ideas, even the past ones that we've tried. But the execution is very unprofessional and certainly not contextually appropriate.

Like we're having polls at the end of a season to decide how to end that season? The lack of foresight to plan this ahead literally every time that it happens is just hilarious to me from an organizational standpoint. From the standpoint of a fan of the game, I appreciate the activity and energy to make this place better. I'm not trying to be a hater. These criticisms of the execution of these ideas is quite fair.

I've always advocated top 4, which is sometimes already difficult to host because of time zone differentials. Every single entrant you add makes it more difficult to run. Entry also has to be based on achievement. For example Mandingo has played Koreans 7 times out of his 168 matches , players if he had played them more often, would have likely resulted in him having 500 or more points less than he does now.

Which was the entire reason Top 4/5 finals tournament was introduced. To combat dodging and to decide whom amongst the people CLOSEST TO WINNING THE SEASON actually deserves it.

edit:
Correction: Mandingo has played koreans 5 times since his record reset. 2 vs J.H, 3 vs Scan. Before he reset he played Thanks 5 times (on name AI) and J.H once.
For comparisons sake, JoSe often called the dodger by everyone, has played koreans 47 times this season, arguably affecting his points earned negatively.
This is excluding their "smurfs".

Scan vs koreans: 42 times.
J.H vs Koreans: 58 times.
Leebokgu/1vs1goooo vs Koreans: 40.
JoSe. vs Koreans: 47 times.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 13, 2020, 01:29:22 pm
@ preMier

Top 4 is nice. I definitely like the idea for the end of season tournament, too. I don't care how big it is if the logistics work out. If the logistics only work for less players, I feel like that's fine.

It's only when stuff is changed/decided at the very end that I think it's wrong or disorganized.

As for Mandingo, I'm not sure I have an opinion on his dodging. On some sense I see it as strategic and see the tournament as the only time he needs to play koreans. On the other hand, it would be cool to cut down on dodging during the season. These are things that are probably better addressed by a change to point allocation than by relying on a tournament.

Totally fair and awesome of Jose to be doing so well in the league while not shying away from real competition. Maybe there is some kind of player rating that each player has that affects how many points they earn or maybe there is a decay system. And if they homogenize their opponents, then they earn less points. That player rating could even help determine the 'home court advantage' I talked about earlier in the thread.

That kind of stuff is probably also rich with opportunity to 'abuse'. So who knows. Mandingo is fine up there with that pretty, unrealistic record. He'll get beat in the tournament.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Meraki on May 13, 2020, 01:50:15 pm
At the end of the day people aren't forced to play the tournament.

Tournaments like these should 100% exist so that we can filter out scrubs trying to abuse the system by dodging the players they know they can't defeat for the sake of pocketing a few bucks.

Personally nothing more disgusting than desperate players avoiding each other to the best of their ability for the cash prize.

I can understand the sudden rule change(Pick vs Pick) can be inconvenient but also, it's not my money. The person investing money should be able to create whatever rule he desires(as long as it isn't out of the realm of logic). Again, people aren't forced to join the tournament.

Sounds brutally honest but it's the truth.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 13, 2020, 03:12:55 pm
Good gentlemen, I see that you mention me in several of your comments. Personally, I have been the player who faced the Koreans more times than anyone in this league, I was never afraid of them, sometimes this league bores me since many of the A ranks are evaders, it is difficult to find a rival In my agenda , the only one that I think almost always confronts me is gangster José, the rest are only evaders, except the Korean players, a day ago I managed to see the player scan at 3:10 am Peruvian time, but I had already played 20 games before I was about to sleep, a few weeks before we had played 7 games in a row, the result was 6-1 in favor of the scan, that confrontation took place at 5 am until 9 am Peruvian time zone, I had come to play. He was really tired all night against other players, so I played with him to let him know that I am not an evader. I know he is a good player, but it is not impossible to beat him so I suggested that he play on an equal footing and in a pleasant time zone for both of us, and regarding why one creates more than one Smurf account, it is simple. Since most rank A players are evaders, they cannot be played and one of them is rank S for wanting to continue playing, we face rank B, the result is that you earn 6 or 7 times approximately 100 points, but you only lose once and Your 100 points were lost. I can't stay up until 2, 3, or 4 am to play scan or jh or any other Korean. we hope your understanding gentlemen and ladies, goodbye
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 13, 2020, 03:31:07 pm
The person investing money should be able to create whatever rule he desires(as long as it isn't out of the realm of logic). Again, people aren't forced to join the tournament.

Sounds brutally honest but it's the truth.

It's just that the volatility of how a season gets decided is very unprofessional. Buy the season ahead of time, not at the end. Money buying power tends to leave a bad taste in peoples' mouths, especially when it's not transparent or if it re-contextualizes previous work/experience.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: insaNe on May 13, 2020, 03:34:37 pm
Good gentlemen, I see that you mention me in several of your comments. Personally, I have been the player who faced the Koreans more times than anyone in this league, I was never afraid of them and I never will be, sometimes this league bores me since many of the ranks A are evaders, it is difficult to find a rival In my schedule, the only one that I think almost always confronts me is the gangster José, the rest are just evaders, except the Korean players, a day ago I managed to see the player scan at 3:10 am Peruvian time, I had played before About 20 games and I was already going to sleep, a few weeks ago we had played 7 games in a row, the result was 6-1 in favor of scanning, that confrontation was held at 5 am until 9 am Peruvian time, I came from playing He was really tired all night against other players, so I played with him to let him know that I am not an evader. I know he is a good player but it is not impossible to beat him, so I proposed to him to play on equal terms and in a time zone m It's nice for both of us, as to why one creates more than one Smurf account, it's simple. Since most rank A players are evaders, they cannot be played and one of them is rank S for wanting to follow playing we face a rank B, the result is that you earn 6 or 7 times approximately 100 points, but you only lose once and your 100 points were lost. I can't stay up until 2, 3 or 4 am to play scan or jh or any other Korean. waited for your understanding gentlemen and ladies, goodbye

Jose played them a literal order of magnitude more than you this season, and he's from Peru. Mandingo has a job and Jose doesn't, is that what it is? :)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 13, 2020, 05:37:35 pm
Mandingo has a family to care for too. so it is entirely understandable.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: hihihello on May 14, 2020, 05:56:30 pm
Also, Scan is in the military and he can only get on at 5pm which is 3 am PACIFIC time. It will be hard to get those games done...
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on May 17, 2020, 10:49:34 am
Also, Scan is in the military and he can only get on at 5pm which is 3 am PACIFIC time. It will be hard to get those games done...

Will be completing my service in next week. Becoming a civilian soon. :)
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: GameLove2 on May 18, 2020, 05:49:46 am
tournament ? when
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 18, 2020, 10:31:20 am
Congratulations to all those who qualified for the tournament, it will begin immediately.

The tournament will consist of the top 10 players, multiple accounts included. It will be RvR and will follow the bracket system attached below.

The players competing are as follows.

#1 Scan
#2 j.h
#3 Father.Mandingo
#4 1vs1goooooooo
#5 Gangster]Jose
#6 [Zoo]Rillo
#7 Legend]Nasus
#8 llllllllllllllll
#9 Gangster]D.U.P
#10 -Os]Skyhigh[-

If anyone is having trouble getting their games in, message me so I can help find a time that works for both players. Also, upload your replays here after each series is over.

gl hf gg.




Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 18, 2020, 10:41:34 am
Jose is rillo so does he automatically advance with whatever account he chooses if he has to play himself?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: laka on May 18, 2020, 10:54:19 am
Is there any way to watch the games? Is it on Twitch or something?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 18, 2020, 11:34:10 am
@ Think-Fast

Yes he does.

@ laka

The replays will be posted here, you can download them once they are.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: tonyG on May 18, 2020, 03:00:29 pm
gosu looking bracket. would be cool to somehow download the replays without spoilers
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 18, 2020, 04:23:07 pm
@ tonyG

Thanks!
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Think-Fast on May 18, 2020, 04:43:34 pm
Sick lineup. Almost half of the gamers are previous season winners
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 18, 2020, 05:32:19 pm
To those participating in the tournament, please try to play your games in a timely fashion. This means communicating with your current opponent and trying to find a time to play your games. I have messaged all those participating letting them know the tournament has started and who their opponent is.

If you stall, fail to cooperate, or refuse to play, you will be banned.

gl hf gg.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Vulture on May 18, 2020, 05:53:52 pm
Possibly add a report thread
Dup my brother plz win
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: scan1014 on May 18, 2020, 07:09:59 pm
To those participating in the tournament, please try to play your games in a timely fashion. This means communicating with your current opponent and trying to find a time to play your games. I have messaged all those participating letting them know the tournament has started and who their opponent is.

If you stall, fail to cooperate, or refuse to play, you will be banned.

gl hf gg.

how long are the players given to finish their match? given 2 days?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 18, 2020, 07:17:44 pm
@ Scan

I am not sure what the time constraint should be as many players have different time zones.

I feel 2 to 3 days is sufficient.

If any player is continuing to stall or take too long to get their games in appropriate actions will be taken.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: machinegun on May 18, 2020, 08:30:40 pm
korea vs peru

kokanee would be here but is banned
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Alex on May 19, 2020, 12:30:26 am
ok
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 19, 2020, 04:50:21 am
dup when play?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: RJBTV on May 19, 2020, 05:12:07 am
I think making a new thread for the tournament might help
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: La.h1pp13 on May 19, 2020, 05:55:35 am
Real question is when will the next season start for all of us baddies?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 19, 2020, 11:53:30 am
What time works for you to play Fainer?

1vs1gooooo is ready to play.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 20, 2020, 02:14:08 am
im on dup go?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 20, 2020, 02:23:00 am
To Fainer, 1vs1gooooo is able to play 10 am to 6 pm korean time.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: FaINeR on May 20, 2020, 09:16:11 am
ok for me is fine 10am to 3pm hour korean
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 20, 2020, 10:21:42 pm
im on go
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 21, 2020, 11:00:24 pm
mandingo im on
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 21, 2020, 11:33:59 pm
He is not cooperating for a smooth tournament. he don't even keep promise.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 21, 2020, 11:58:38 pm
relax son, tomorrow play  ok?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 21, 2020, 11:59:15 pm
What time do you get in?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: neko- on May 22, 2020, 12:42:46 am
where we are going to find the reps of this tournament?  :D
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 22, 2020, 01:11:52 am
Apparently you guys are playing tomorrow, let me know if any more stalling occurs.

@ Neko

You can find them in the SCW17 Top 10 thread
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 22, 2020, 10:57:54 pm
Newbport say : Apparently you guys are playing tomorrow, let me know if any more stalling occurs.

Mandingo still dodge
Please disqualify him. newbport
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 23, 2020, 12:12:25 am
He has a valid explanation for why he can't play today.

You guys can play tomorrow.

If he stalls tomorrow appropriate action action will be taken.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 23, 2020, 07:52:08 pm
im online ready ???? goldscv
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 23, 2020, 09:43:01 pm
on
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 23, 2020, 10:14:34 pm
He did dodge again.
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 23, 2020, 10:18:20 pm
go come game 5/5
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Newbport on May 23, 2020, 10:18:41 pm
Gogogogog
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 23, 2020, 10:31:35 pm
1vs1goooooooo here?
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: DinGo07 on May 23, 2020, 10:50:38 pm
I have to sleep I can't wait for you all night.  1vs1goooooo here???
Title: Re: SCW 17 Top Five End of Season Tournament
Post by: Joker on May 23, 2020, 10:55:40 pm
go