StarCraft World
GENERAL => General Discussion => Topic started by: SaveMeNow on June 12, 2018, 10:01:50 am
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I like how the league is structured, there's ranks and forums where you can talk about anything but there is one thing I want to ask about and that is this website. Why is it so plain? Compared to other starcraft sites like teamliquid.net or gosugamers, this site is least attractive to the eye. Why doesn't the admin put some cool designs and borders? And there's no banners and nothing, just plain blue, grey, and black.
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I'm not a front-end developer, those things are generally outside my level of experience. If you can do better or know someone that can do better, I'll be glad to take their help
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pretty sure you can find someone and pay them not much to design the site
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pretty sure you can find someone and pay them not much to design the site
I kind of like the simplicity and the dark color scheme. It's very easy on the eyes and very easy to navigate.
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than I think just add some border designs would be cool.
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pretty sure you can find someone and pay them not much to design the site
Well then why don’t you pay somebody since you care so much about it. Not being a dick just saying
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pretty sure you can find someone and pay them not much to design the site
Well then why don’t you pay somebody since you care so much about it. Not being a dick just saying
sure about that not being a dick part mark?
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pretty sure you can find someone and pay them not much to design the site
Well then why don’t you pay somebody since you care so much about it. Not being a dick just saying
sure about that not being a dick part mark?
Well I mean shit he just expects sword to keep forking out money on shit that doesn’t even matter.
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Gus, Mark does have a point. We cant keep spending money on a already functional site. Lets keep it this way and try to increase the activity. After that we can talk about details.
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Coming from a marketing & design background, I have seen through hundreds of case studies that better design is quite useful in acquiring new customers/users, especially when paired with a good marketing strategy. It could be a good way for us to attract better talent in the way of streaming/casting and tapping into previously unreachable communities like low$ folks on TL or Korean Styler map players. '
Each of these would be orders of magnitude improvement on activity, probably performing way better than the micro-optimizations we've been doing currently. That said, any progress is good progress, so good work to SCW staff and users making this place incrementally better each day!
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If im not mistaken the word has already spreaf about this league. Rabbit, Brain and Succon are just some few ppl that has over 10.000 followers at their Youtube... its SC, and the game is pretty old. A new site wont do any good. Stuff we should focus on.
- Tourneys.
- Lowmoney maps.
- Super maps.
- make rules as the koreans have.
- every member should pay a fee of 1 dollar, each season.
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If im not mistaken the word has already spreaf about this league. Rabbit, Brain and Succon are just some few ppl that has over 10.000 followers at their Youtube... its SC, and the game is pretty old. A new site wont do any good. Stuff we should focus on.
- Tourneys.
- Lowmoney maps.
- Super maps.
- make rules as the koreans have.
- every member should pay a fee of 1 dollar, each season.
With all due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the essence of what I said. Reaching an audience has to do with getting them to engage, not getting them to know you exist. There is a difference, one which you are not taking into account. It's not about word of mouth, it's about whether or not we have something with which consumers/users deem worthy to engage.
I can't speak much to those micro-improvements you're proposing. They seem like ideas worthy of entertaining. I will say that if an activity boost is the goal, then your last point of charging a fee is a huge detriment to this goal. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of case studies publicly available about pricing models that will illustrate this point with real-world use cases. I know that $1 seems like a small amount and that most people should (in your eyes) have this kind of money to spend on something they care to participate in, but that's just now how users behave.
As far as whether or not a better site will do any good, I feel our opinions differ wildly. You offered no points to serve your argument, but I'll try to offer some to serve mine.
- User experience research shows that users, especially gamers, want things for free. We see gaming companies, including Blizzard, understanding this and implementing "Freemium" models all over the place. This is based on the findings of their marketing teams, which have budgets upwards of 500k-1M per year.(
- Design directly impacts a user's trust. In today's era more than ever we have users questioning where they give sensitive data (even email, despite the ease of creating burner emails). I imagine trust is also the reason Sword implemented SSL on his site, and is the reason I didn't sign up until it was implemented.
- Design entices a user to act. Think about StarCraft's design. If they didn't have great art and a great user interface, what would have prompted you to play it? You wouldn't have chosen it over another game had it not done this. On the same line, we're technically competing with Blizzard's ranked league as well as just public games in terms of enticing users to play. If we can't offer a user experience comparable to one of those two (and there are even more) highly-polished places of competition, we won't see a massive growth in activity.
- Design encourages repeat behavior. If we implemented features in the league's interface which encouraged repeat use, we would see repeat use. There are hundreds of publicly available case studies and books on this too. One highly-touted book on this subject is called Hooked.
- Marketing isn't just about getting people to know you exist. It's about getting the right people to know you exist and giving them a good reason to act. You say Korean gamers have given SCW high visibility all across the community, but we haven't seen much return on that. Surely some of it is rules, maps, and community perception, and language barriers. But a lot of it has to do with SCW not really being set up to convert any new traffic that comes here into users.
We get stuck looking at this place through the lens of someone who has participated in FMP leagues for over a decade. It becomes hard to consider the perspective of a fresh gamer. For instance, if you go to our site right now and look at the homepage, what does it want from you? It looks like a forum and that it wants you to register for an account to participate in the forum. League is mentioned as a text link in the middle of one of the posts. This is a limitation of the technology Sword is using, I'm sure, but it is still a limitation.
If we were serious about garnering new members for our league, this place would look like a league from the get go. The objective truth of the matter is that it doesn't look like a league. If we were to create a clear path to convert new visitors into users, we would see a much higher rate of user acquisition than we currently see (a lot of which are probably duplicate accounts).
I'd be happy to discuss any of this further with Sword or whomever.
Source: I've done this for a living for 8 years and run a highly-profitable business doing this for clients with enterprise-level budgets and concerns.
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If im not mistaken the word has already spreaf about this league. Rabbit, Brain and Succon are just some few ppl that has over 10.000 followers at their Youtube... its SC, and the game is pretty old. A new site wont do any good. Stuff we should focus on.
- Tourneys.
- Lowmoney maps.
- Super maps.
- make rules as the koreans have.
- every member should pay a fee of 1 dollar, each season.
With all due respect, I think you are misunderstanding the essence of what I said. Reaching an audience has to do with getting them to engage, not getting them to know you exist. There is a difference, one which you are not taking into account. It's not about word of mouth, it's about whether or not we have something with which consumers/users deem worthy to engage.
I can't speak much to those micro-improvements you're proposing. They seem like ideas worthy of entertaining. I will say that if an activity boost is the goal, then your last point of charging a fee is a huge detriment to this goal. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of case studies publicly available about pricing models that will illustrate this point with real-world use cases. I know that $1 seems like a small amount and that most people should (in your eyes) have this kind of money to spend on something they care to participate in, but that's just now how users behave.
As far as whether or not a better site will do any good, I feel our opinions differ wildly. You offered no points to serve your argument, but I'll try to offer some to serve mine.
- User experience research shows that users, especially gamers, want things for free. We see gaming companies, including Blizzard, understanding this and implementing "Freemium" models all over the place. This is based on the findings of their marketing teams, which have budgets upwards of 500k-1M per year.(
- Design directly impacts a user's trust. In today's era more than ever we have users questioning where they give sensitive data (even email, despite the ease of creating burner emails). I imagine trust is also the reason Sword implemented SSL on his site, and is the reason I didn't sign up until it was implemented.
- Design entices a user to act. Think about StarCraft's design. If they didn't have great art and a great user interface, what would have prompted you to play it? You wouldn't have chosen it over another game had it not done this. On the same line, we're technically competing with Blizzard's ranked league as well as just public games in terms of enticing users to play. If we can't offer a user experience comparable to one of those two (and there are even more) highly-polished places of competition, we won't see a massive growth in activity.
- Design encourages repeat behavior. If we implemented features in the league's interface which encouraged repeat use, we would see repeat use. There are hundreds of publicly available case studies and books on this too. One highly-touted book on this subject is called Hooked.
- Marketing isn't just about getting people to know you exist. It's about getting the right people to know you exist and giving them a good reason to act. You say Korean gamers have given SCW high visibility all across the community, but we haven't seen much return on that. Surely some of it is rules, maps, and community perception, and language barriers. But a lot of it has to do with SCW not really being set up to convert any new traffic that comes here into users.
We get stuck looking at this place through the lens of someone who has participated in FMP leagues for over a decade. It becomes hard to consider the perspective of a fresh gamer. For instance, if you go to our site right now and look at the homepage, what does it want from you? It looks like a forum and that it wants you to register for an account to participate in the forum. League is mentioned as a text link in the middle of one of the posts. This is a limitation of the technology Sword is using, I'm sure, but it is still a limitation.
If we were serious about garnering new members for our league, this place would look like a league from the get go. The objective truth of the matter is that it doesn't look like a league. If we were to create a clear path to convert new visitors into users, we would see a much higher rate of user acquisition than we currently see (a lot of which are probably duplicate accounts).
I'd be happy to discuss any of this further with Sword or whomever.
Source: I've done this for a living for 8 years and run a highly-profitable business doing this for clients with enterprise-level budgets and concerns.
Fake news
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You bring up some good points swag. Definitely something to start talking about.
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Honestly speaking I told some friends of mine about fastest league here and that u need to register in order participate in the league. U know what they say? This place(site) us a Sithole or it looks like a scamming site.
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Honestly speaking I told some friends of mine about fastest league here and that u need to register in order participate in the league. U know what they say? This place(site) us a Sithole or it looks like a scamming site.
JUST STFU + ur friends plz , KIDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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SMN is right, the site should look cooler, it would probably bring more people.
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I'm sure there's a web designer somewhere n the fastest community..
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I'm sure there's a web designer somewhere n the fastest community..
Perhaps it's the guy who just wrote a huge post about design.
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Lol I wish I knew..
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Dear god.... From my perspectiv, thats not going to bring more activity. When ppl have to pay for something it automatic means that its good. Everything for free isnt worth anything, thats just how the human brain works. You should know that since u have study markerting. Correct?
As i stated before, we should all pay a fee, which will bring alot of money into the price-pool. That will lead to good ppl will play in this league and itll draw alot of attention. Getting a better site wont do anything good. Dont judge the bok by its cover, eyh?
Are you really going to draw ur conclusion based on "ur friends" opinion? Thats harsh, you have to get a better, wider perspective, u said i talk about micro-perspective, thats not true at all. I rather say macro-perspective.
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I mean, a better looking site will obviously only be positive, theres no argument here. Not saying its a must have, but saying it won't do anything is stupid. I am a freelance graphic designer, I could help a bit for a low cost, if the demand is there.
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Give out a prize pool for games played to give the 'noob' members something to strive for each season when the 1st place rank is out of reach. Say 5$/100 games played. 10$/50 wins. etc These players are the ones who keep the league alive, providing games for new players when they enter the channel.
This is all assuming you have prize money to spread around.
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Give out a prize pool for games played to give the 'noob' members something to strive for each season when the 1st place rank is out of reach. Say 5$/100 games played. 10$/50 wins. etc These players are the ones who keep the league alive, providing games for new players when they enter the channel.
This is all assuming you have prize money to spread around.
ehh not sure this is a good idea
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Awful idea. It just emphasizes even more reason to pub bash. You’ll get paid to mass games and get free wins. That’s not keeping a league alive. Puppy I hope you didn’t spend much time coming up with this. Jesus Christ
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Awful idea. It just emphasizes even more reason to pub bash. You’ll get paid to mass games and get free wins. That’s not keeping a league alive. Puppy I hope you didn’t spend much time coming up with this. Jesus Christ
Last season:
2 members with 100 wins (10$ x 2 = 20$)
FiRe.Buu 4235 133-107 55%
FiRe.SpiRiTs 3955 131-72 64%
100 games:
8 members (5$ x 8 = 40$)
GanGstEr]JoSe. 4785 90-16 84%
FiRe.Buu 4235 133-107 55%
Sail 3740 94-63 59%
Resoud 3510 75-51 59%
Chick3n 3080 83-121 40%
GanGstEr]Dario 2945 66-66 50%
KeNshU 2775 57-52 52%
Network 2120 63-65 49%
For season 5, 60$ would have been required to reward the most active members of the community. Look at a player like Chick3n (I assume (slayer)) coming back. Rewarding him with a small amount of money for massing games will create desire to play in future seasons to try and claim the 1st place prize pool.
You're looking for a solution to activity and using the end of season tournament to determine the best.
edit: There was 1 player in the 2s section with 100 games:
SaDiStiC)DiaBlO 1870 53-51 50%
He didn't win the season, but provided the most activity towards the league. Why not reward actions like this? It will promote other members to play 100 games and stop worrying about losing.
edit #2:
Spartan[nK] used a decay system to prevent people reaching #1 with a large point lead and going inactive to win a season. He also rewarded 50, 100, 150, 200 games with 100 - 200 point bonuses. These points were easily 'taken' by more skilled players while rewarding mass gaming.
edit #3:
If Tyga /SCW mods are hosting tournaments, perhaps hold a bi-weekly "SCW Tourney" on for instance saturday during the day (EU / USEast / USWest time zone crunches etc). Giving higher ranked players first dibs on participation. This will force the top 10 to play each other. Reward tournaments with 100-200 points so people understand they can get a big advantage through participation in SCW Tournies.
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Awful idea. It just emphasizes even more reason to pub bash. You’ll get paid to mass games and get free wins. That’s not keeping a league alive. Puppy I hope you didn’t spend much time coming up with this. Jesus Christ
Last season:
2 members with 100 wins (10$ x 2 = 20$)
FiRe.Buu 4235 133-107 55%
FiRe.SpiRiTs 3955 131-72 64%
100 games:
8 members (5$ x 8 = 40$)
GanGstEr]JoSe. 4785 90-16 84%
FiRe.Buu 4235 133-107 55%
Sail 3740 94-63 59%
Resoud 3510 75-51 59%
Chick3n 3080 83-121 40%
GanGstEr]Dario 2945 66-66 50%
KeNshU 2775 57-52 52%
Network 2120 63-65 49%
For season 5, 60$ would have been required to reward the most active members of the community. Look at a player like Chick3n (I assume (slayer)) coming back. Rewarding him with a small amount of money for massing games will create desire to play in future seasons to try and claim the 1st place prize pool.
You're looking for a solution to activity and using the end of season tournament to determine the best.
edit: There was 1 player in the 2s section with 100 games:
SaDiStiC)DiaBlO 1870 53-51 50%
He didn't win the season, but provided the most activity towards the league. Why not reward actions like this? It will promote other members to play 100 games and stop worrying about losing.
edit #2:
Spartan[nK] used a decay system to prevent people reaching #1 with a large point lead and going inactive to win a season. He also rewarded 50, 100, 150, 200 games with 100 - 200 point bonuses. These points were easily 'taken' by more skilled players while rewarding mass gaming.
This system worked well in VGT because there was a ton of players playing at all levels. In the state of the game now we don’t have that luxury. There’s a handful of players at the top and then there’s everyone else really. Rewarding pub bashing with money does not work in this day in age. To reward people for massing games and free winning is just stupid. You’re basing something that worked years ago when Starcraft was at its peak. You can not compare then and now. In no way should we ever be rewarding people with money for massing games and free winning.
You missed a few players on your list as there's more with over 100 games played. There's also players with many accounts and if you combine them do they get money as well?
That's great that Chick3n plays a lot. But if we're rewarding someone who gets a record of 83-121 with money... god help us.
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Why not reward a season like Chick3n had? 20 people playing 100 games would make for a healthier league than 8. I don't care about this 'pub bashing' you complain about, the top will be the top.
If someone in the top 10 is only playing one player, eventually he/she will earn almost 0 points (A rank v D rank). If for instance one player plays another person 100x I am sure an Admin will notice the abuse and can take actions accordingly. No one is going to go 100-0 playing one person and get paid for it.
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UGL tried the milestone points for 50 wins 100 wins. Etc. It was abused especially by pro]evil pub bashing. I can see Jose doing the same. It was taken out for a reason
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Support puppy but with less money 5 dollars for those who get 100 wins and 2 dollars for those who arrive every 100 games.
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We don't need 10 people playing 100 games against each other. We need 100 people playing 10 games against each other. Giving incentive to mass games and reward them for it is so stupid. It's giving the wrong message to our players. This gives these dodging/pub bashing players a way out to say "hey I can make money still without having to play the best". You don't reward subpar people. If you want to give a bit of a point boost that's one thing.
Hey Chick3n you've won $10 for hitting a milestone of 100 losses and having a sub .500 winning percentage. Congratulations! Wow too bad real life wasn't like that. Get rewarded for trying real hard even though you're not succeeding. You have players playing that have put up amazing records and tons of games played that have won NOTHING. Now we want to reward people for just playing games? Give me a break, that's just so stupid. It's okay you don't have to be good at the game, you just have to play a lot. Where's the motivation to get better and want to beat the best? There's none because you're getting rewarded for just showing up.
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I don't have any comment as to whether or not prizes are worth giving out to reward activity. I'm not even sure how I feel about any prizes being generated at all, but it's irrelevant.
What I do know is that Chick3n is an old school vet who plays for the love of the game. He didn't play this season for any other reason than because he likes StarCraft. Not sure why you've got to use him as an example to prove your point, which is largely baseless anyway. No disrespect, I know you're a good player, but put some respect on the man's name or just don't type it out to begin with. He's just another person trying to enjoy his free time by playing a childhood pastime.
A lot of you adults use adolescent or even childlike tactics to try to dismantle your opposition's arguments. I agree we need more players playing games and not less players playing more games, but literally none of the rest of your argument was cogent. Like seriously your argument had literally no evidence supporting it, yet you touted it like it was some supreme gospel. If you don't know what you're talking about – which you do not (an objective truth, not an insult) – then at least don't be so confident about it.
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We don't need 10 people playing 100 games against each other. We need 100 people playing 10 games against each other. Giving incentive to mass games and reward them for it is so stupid. It's giving the wrong message to our players. This gives these dodging/pub bashing players a way out to say "hey I can make money still without having to play the best". You don't reward subpar people. If you want to give a bit of a point boost that's one thing.
Hey Chick3n you've won $10 for hitting a milestone of 100 losses and having a sub .500 winning percentage. Congratulations! Wow too bad real life wasn't like that. Get rewarded for trying real hard even though you're not succeeding. You have players playing that have put up amazing records and tons of games played that have won NOTHING. Now we want to reward people for just playing games? Give me a break, that's just so stupid. It's okay you don't have to be good at the game, you just have to play a lot. Where's the motivation to get better and want to beat the best? There's none because you're getting rewarded for just showing up.
I agree with this kon player. Providing incentives to players massing games is not the right pass. Yes It would increase the activity but not so much and that's not the real solution in bringing new faces into the community. What we need to do is trying something new. A better website would be great, not saying it needs to look proffesionally made but just enough to the point where it looks eye-catching. Secondly, we really should cutdown on the bm, especially towards newcomers. So you think people are pussies etc when they cant take a bm joke? Certain bm may go to far to the point where it's not tolerable anymore. Just like online bullying, how many people suicide per year? It's a serious problem. Oh and btw, maybe bming is part of the fastest community but when you want new faces especially from the low money community, cutting down the bm is a good idea. We lowmoney players don't ike the bm and atleast most of us don't. you want to bm? bm with people that you know. not newcomers or payers that you dont even know.
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Yeah bm is kinda lame... I just wanna play good games, dont give two shits about the banter and if you think I suck or not. just remake the damn game
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I don't have any comment as to whether or not prizes are worth giving out to reward activity. I'm not even sure how I feel about any prizes being generated at all, but it's irrelevant.
What I do know is that Chick3n is an old school vet who plays for the love of the game. He didn't play this season for any other reason than because he likes StarCraft. Not sure why you've got to use him as an example to prove your point, which is largely baseless anyway. No disrespect, I know you're a good player, but put some respect on the man's name or just don't type it out to begin with. He's just another person trying to enjoy his free time by playing a childhood pastime.
A lot of you adults use adolescent or even childlike tactics to try to dismantle your opposition's arguments. I agree we need more players playing games and not less players playing more games, but literally none of the rest of your argument was cogent. Like seriously your argument had literally no evidence supporting it, yet you touted it like it was some supreme gospel. If you don't know what you're talking about – which you do not (an objective truth, not an insult) – then at least don't be so confident about it.
I'm not picking on Chick3n, I'm simply using him as an example. I know he's an older player that came back which is great. I simply pulled his name because of his record and amount of games. I have no idea who you are, but I've been around the game for a long time and know what I'm talking about. I've seen it all and been around for it all VGT, SCD, SCZ, UGL and now SCW. I touted it like it's a some supreme gospel because an idea like this has been tried before and it failed miserably. People abused the tactic and it was an awful season and it was removed the next season. If you knew what you were talking about you would know this, but I guess you don't. If you care to have any relevant input to the topic feel free.