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Poll

For my 1v1 Fastest training  map, players willl be given a certain amount of time before a typical strong push begins on their base: what's the most difficult push to hold?

Terran 4 Rax bio--hitting as soon as stim finishes (as zerg or protoss)
0 (0%)
4 Gateway middle zealot push (as all races)
5 (55.6%)
Reaver aggro, DT/shuttle manipulation (draining comsat energy), or competent storm drops
0 (0%)
Slow cannon/reaver push with corsairs containing units from the side (as zerg mostly, but terran also when they choke)
0 (0%)
Early Lurker rush or smart muta harrass (as terran or protoss)
1 (11.1%)
4 Hatch speedling flood (as any race)
0 (0%)
Zerg turtle into mass guardian/devourer
1 (11.1%)
3 factory vultures with mines (as terran or protoss)
0 (0%)
2 HydraDen/Evo chamber 1/1 speed/range timing push
1 (11.1%)
Dragoon w/ Range, +1 Corsair, and either DT/shuttle, reaver/shuttle, or HT/shuttle
1 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 24, 2021, 01:34:11 am

Author Topic: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel  (Read 761 times)

ShitPlayerWith170APM

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Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« on: January 10, 2021, 01:34:11 am »
Hello friends, I'm creating a practice map for fastest players which align directly with the fastest possible time of an executed push by current human players. Players who consistently lose against a certain push can practice it over and over again with no variation (other than their own), newer players can hone their builds and test them against relatively difficult opponents, and for a few of these, players will be able to learn or practice perfect-walling setups (the AI won''t be fooled if they happen to be melee against marines behind medic walls: they'll target the medics to make their way through), and subsequent PvP matches with similar situations will be less stressful, foreign, and you'll most likely be able to abuse the limitations each timing push inevitability is exposed to.

If my listed suggestions are terrible, please let me know which build order pushes I should include instead--as this has nothing to do with my pride. I simply want to create a tool for us to train in for the current meta and it needs to include the most problematic or difficult tendencies of each race. Hopefully we'll be able to place static defense in the perfect locations, have certain units ready beforehand, or even have a group of lings burrowed behind the choke which trap pushes in between them and sunken colonies.

Sincerely,
Your Favorite ShitplayerwithhighAPM

P.S.
I also intend on porting over micro/macro to fastest maps (if that interests you), creating an X amount of building time per player (who then subsequently compete in a RR tournament, followed by a a simple bracket, and lastly, rather than space terrain being utilized in an area, I can set several locations, switches, triggers, and a point system. This means that 4 player in a game equates to 2 playing and 2 spectating. After the loser claims gg, the other player is granted the win and the two spectators play each other. The same thing occurs. From here, two things can happen: players can continue playing singles with the 2 opponents they've yet to play or they can choose doubles--in this scenario, the players with 1 win are partnered with players with 0 wins and they begin their match. Races can be chosen at each stage--the only exception is double zerg in 2v2.

Newbport

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2021, 07:53:28 am »
I would say mid z vs a mid building protoss is the hardest to stop if you're scouted. Dope thread though!
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Robotik

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2021, 08:32:24 am »
I would say mid z vs a mid building protoss is the hardest to stop if you're scouted. Dope thread though!

Really? Once I figured out how to stop it wasn't hard at all. Save up 3 larvae on main to build lings asap and send 3 drones to choke to build sunkens. After initial defense use lings to prevent run-bys.

Newbport

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2021, 11:48:07 am »
@ Robotik. I agree, that is a way to stop it.

The tough/tricky part for me about it is knowing if it's coming or not.

If you choose to scout the middle with your overlord and see it coming I agree that it is much easier to defend, use the 2 or 3 drone (depending on your micro capabilities) to choke and 6 ling process.

The problem is that you have to use 2 to 3 drones and 3 larvae to stop the rush, I feel this is too much wasted units/money. Against any top player you are still likely to lose in the long game with still no guarantee of stopping the rush.

Mid building vs mid Z (or even corner Z) is the most common way that I've seen noobs take quick games off of top players.

This is all just my opinion, a lot of these discussions depend on the caliber of the player.
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Think-Fast

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2021, 03:16:07 pm »
I think the best defense for stopping a mid build, whether its vs a terran bunk rush or probes/zealots, is to make your pool before you make an overlord. Buys you an extra few seconds to get 9 lings out quicker.

premier

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2021, 05:30:51 pm »
I think the best defense for stopping a mid build, whether its vs a terran bunk rush or probes/zealots, is to make your pool before you make an overlord. Buys you an extra few seconds to get 9 lings out quicker.
You can even pull a drone off your minerals right before the drone you're making finishes. Usually you'll have 200 minerals a second, sometimes even two seconds before that drone is able to make the pool. By pulling that one drone off the minerals you can instantly make the pool as you hit 200.
RJBTV

Oi7iuM[gK]

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2021, 11:46:59 pm »
map trainers very good idea. :)

ShitPlayerWith170APM

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2021, 01:41:51 am »
I decided to segment each match up separately starting with PvZ. In hindsight, a bit dumb to choose the possibly "easiest" matchup out of all the possible ones, but I naturally wanted to see if a zerg 6 pool and knows where you spawn if you can hold it. The PvZ version should be finished within a day or two and has 8 levels (if you die after beating level 1 you'll be sent back to level 1, if you die at level 5 you'll be sent to 4, etc. Once Player 1 reaches 8 "custom" score it's deemed a victory. I fully intend on the final release including each race on either side of attacking and defending; I made my locations, switches, and triggers in a versatile yet functioning manner so that all it takes to introduce the other races is a couple of different condition statements--these will be chosen by the player in order of weakest to strongest matchups. I'll post the PvZ version here and on my discord (which I named "SCW [op ugl] Brood War Fastest"). I'll give both links tomorrow.

Sincerely,
Your Favorite Shit Bag, Link

Robotik

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Re: Hardest Timing Pushes to Stall or Repel
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2021, 04:58:02 am »
Excited to test it. Thanks man.

 

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