As if they didn't know kon and kokane stubborn and reluctant with the changes. For them what they say is the absolute truth. You can simply discuss the idea and draw conclusions, they gave you idea, perfect now to expect other people's opinions.

Also as that zvsp trick is good I have already done it before even so it is an abusive position

I’ve literally said change the map about 4 times in this thread. Another bright mind joins in...

I’m open for change that will improve balance. Having set matchups does not improve balance or the game of fastest.

I give up. Just a waste of time trying to talk to you two. Do whatever you like

Premier, 

We’re all well aware of the map issues and abuses for it. Yes the map is clearly the issue. As I’ve been saying for the last few posts. I also don’t believe you made this map for giggles, as witnessed on webbot this morning after you made the map you commented in channel to Fainer that this is the best map you’ve created and you blew your own mind lol. Hard to believe anything you say.

Port,

I already told you why Scan likes it. He’s a low player, and they pick matchups and have forever. Which works for low money, it doesn’t work for fastest however. He has great knowledge of low maps and very little of fastest. He admits that by saying “I’m new to to fastest”. Of course he’s going to resort to his knowledge of low money and lean to a way that favours his experiences there.

As I also stated earlier host a tournament of this format to try out now and see the outcome. Don’t look to try something new for the finals. I’ll bring back the sports analogy. When leagues bring in rule changes, they get tested out at lower levels first before being implemented into the pros. They test out their ideas before putting it in, which to me makes sense. They don’t just put in a new rule and be like well damn that really sucked. Too bad we ruined an NBA finals with that change. Oh well.

If you want to be an adult, be able to take criticism with a grain of salt. Again I’m sorry, but if you’re going to make comments such as you did expect to be criticized.

I made a 4 player map that focuses on nerfing midbuild protoss and removing spot abuse entirely. It looks a bit wonky but I think people can get used to it. It is also something people can play just for the sake of playing fastest on a unique new map.

Awful. So now a corner zerg can create two chokes instead of one? Yay you’ve broken one zergs choke now guess what you get to do it all over again!

I’ll say it again for you guys. The problem isn’t matchups, it’s the MAP. If you want to try and make fastest fair you change the map. That is the only way to do it. People will still abuse with picking set matchups. I don’t understand how that’s so hard to see. Picking matchups solves nothing other then finding a different way to ruin the game. People will still abuse. You know why? Because picking matchups doesn’t mean you won’t be mid spot.

The flaw in fastest is the map. Nothing else. Making set matchups doesn’t change the map. Period

Zerg is the most reactive race on fastest. The zerg will never win a game playing against a good player. Protoss and Terran can pretty well do whatever they want against a zerg early game and not have to worry about anything. Zerg plays behind from the get go in fastest. Now you’re going to give the Protoss and Terran more of a head start by knowing the race? Zergs get ahead by the Protoss and terrans having to do builds to protect against vsing a Terran or Protoss as opponents. And then failing those builds to an extent. A zerg gets ahead by stuffing a mid build or 4 Gate, or the Protoss going nexus into gates not nexus straight into gas. Every Terran go almost 3 racks. Why would a Terran now go 3 tax when they know it’s a zerg? That would just be stupid. They don’t have to 4 gate or mid build or go nexus and four gateways because the only thing that could potentially hurt them is a few lings. And anyone who can stack workers or build 1-2 cannons holds that.

I understand what you’re trying to do Port, but the matchups are not the imbalance, it’s the map. Even setting pre matchups can still cause abuse, which is the problem. But it’s also fastest map and how we play it. You’re going to get complaints no matter what. Not everyone is always going to be happy. As mentioned if I’m playing Cole and he picks PvZ and he gets to be right above me. It’s a free win as not only will he fast tech because he knows the matchup, but he’s right above me. Now it’s my turn to pick and play PvZ and it’s cross map and he’s corner. That’s not equal playing field as he just had a matchup above me. So now I’m going to complain my PvZ was much harder and not fair. So what are you going to do for me now? Games can be won from mid spots. Obviously it’s harder yes but no impossible. A series between Mandingo and I last night, I won ZvP as mid zerg, and he won a TvP vs me as mid Terran. The better game play will win and can win no matter the spot. Yes of course it makes it harder and sometimes almost impossible, but again that’s the map not the matchups.

I agree with Cole that having predetermined matchups will just make people abuse another way. Terran will bunk rush or go straight gas into factories vs zerg. Protoss same thing can just go straight into fast drops. Zvt the zerg doesn’t have to worry about a 4 Gate. Pre determined matchups takes the fun out of sc. You don’t need to really scout. You know what you’re doing before the game even starts.

And we also don’t do pre determined matchups all season so why now for the finals? That’s like the NFL playing regular games all season by its current rules and then come playoff time okay each team gets 10 possessions a game to make it fair so everyone has a same shot. That’s not how it works. Or the NBA playing by its current rules for the regular season and then saying for playoffs each team gets to shoot 30 three point shots and 40 two point shots no more no less. Whoever makes the most shots wins. Just silly.

If we want to finally make changes to the imbalances of fastest then we adopt a new map. The matchups can still be imbalanced on our map predetermined or not.

A low money player will vote for predetermined matchups because that’s how low is played and what they’re used to. Of course they’ll love that. But again this isn’t low money. We also as a community for years have frowned upon pickers, mainly Protoss pickers. We have bmd Sithlord for years for doing this and now we’re going to encourage picking?

Again if we want to finally change the imbalances we change the map. That is the only way, not having set matchups.

Also my two cents on the accounts in the top five, I feel they do deserve something for getting two accounts in there. Whether that be a second lifeline per say if they lose they get another chance at redemption. Some sort of reward should be put in place or else what’s the point? As Cole said it creates activity and we have enough dodging as it is. This will just encourage more to protect one account and sit at the top and dodge and less activity. And we need more activity and less dodging. Another option is to expand the tournament to more people if multiple accounts are in there. If there’s two double accounts then it goes to the top 7. Or if there’s 1 account then just top 6. But there needs to be a reward for getting to accounts in the top.

Played 2v2 LeGenD but LeGenD]Fergus won't register. They were spamming 2v2 scw.

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