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Author Topic: Season Tournament and the future of SCW  (Read 8916 times)

Newbport

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2019, 06:38:23 pm »
I don't think Brood War will ever completely die, it's too good of a game.
Back to the front.

lpajax

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2019, 09:47:02 pm »
It is like chess, a clasic

sNipEr.ScopE

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2019, 01:20:14 am »
Too bad I suck now but I'm actually stoked to play again

preMier

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2019, 09:16:13 am »
I think I might be good for the future of competitive fastest map for players to start branching out to the korean map. Not the styler version but the less bugged versions like Hs, topclan or pokerface. The korean server alone has almost 5 times the amount of players the other server total combined, of which most come from the Asia server.

preMier

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2019, 05:17:12 pm »
season 14 crowdfunding given we shake up enough interest?

sM.Zik

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2019, 10:27:38 am »
I think I might be good for the future of competitive fastest map for players to start branching out to the korean map. Not the styler version but the less bugged versions like Hs, topclan or pokerface. The korean server alone has almost 5 times the amount of players the other server total combined, of which most come from the Asia server.

We can't play on korean servers, tho. They are used to play at TR24 every games and they will (and I understand why) kick anyone that doesnt have 5 green pings. Can't blame them, really. We can't even play at TR16 between us in West most of the times without severe lag. Not saying we NEED TR24 for fastest, tbh even TR12 is fine if its low latency, but koreans do mind a lot.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 10:29:13 am by sM.Zik »

TealSilverSteal

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2019, 03:55:23 am »
ofc the latency is a big problem. Ive told this alot of time. When europeans come to west we got high latency...... 2 seconds is alot -.-

preMier

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2019, 07:18:47 pm »
I think I might be good for the future of competitive fastest map for players to start branching out to the korean map. Not the styler version but the less bugged versions like Hs, topclan or pokerface. The korean server alone has almost 5 times the amount of players the other server total combined, of which most come from the Asia server.

We can't play on korean servers, tho. They are used to play at TR24 every games and they will (and I understand why) kick anyone that doesnt have 5 green pings. Can't blame them, really. We can't even play at TR16 between us in West most of the times without severe lag. Not saying we NEED TR24 for fastest, tbh even TR12 is fine if its low latency, but koreans do mind a lot.

I've been hosting 1s and some 2s on korea with "foreigner" or "European!" in the title and people seem to be interested in playing foreigners and will overlook the ping. week and a half ago pro]Ace even played vs DoE and Shin. Just have to present yourself correctly. That aside though, most koreans aren't too kind on bad ping or foreigners
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 10:03:45 pm by preMier »

PEETREE

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2019, 06:46:26 pm »
I would not count Cole out so easily vs Goldscv. Hes proven to be on the same skill level, if not greater than, as J.H or Goldscv. Although, without a doubt, Goldscv and J.H have definitely improved the past season or two having more experience with adapting to our strategies. In terms of raw macro and micro, both J.H and Goldscv are extremely powerful at a level not even seen during prime vgt days. But that isn't everything. Cole is a very talented gamer in terms of wits and understanding the game play. Hes beaten many skilled gamers without using his level of micro or macro but with just pure strategy, understanding his opponents gameplay, and timing. Between J.H, Goldscv, and cole, I think it will come down to the deficiencies in fastest map, adaptation of game play, and luck. Example: mid z vs t or p.

New to site. old vgt player.  I just watched about 10 replays each from the top 3 players and that statement about these players being better than prime vgt players is horribly  inaccurate.  These top 3 players wouldve been chewed up by top vgt players in its prime. I dont see the balance between tech, micro and macro that the top vgt players had.  Most of what i see from these players is a tech race to counter the other player and whoever gets there first seems to win the game.  Havent seen the strategical approach that prime vgt players executed.

Newbport

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2019, 07:20:24 pm »
I would not count Cole out so easily vs Goldscv. Hes proven to be on the same skill level, if not greater than, as J.H or Goldscv. Although, without a doubt, Goldscv and J.H have definitely improved the past season or two having more experience with adapting to our strategies. In terms of raw macro and micro, both J.H and Goldscv are extremely powerful at a level not even seen during prime vgt days. But that isn't everything. Cole is a very talented gamer in terms of wits and understanding the game play. Hes beaten many skilled gamers without using his level of micro or macro but with just pure strategy, understanding his opponents gameplay, and timing. Between J.H, Goldscv, and cole, I think it will come down to the deficiencies in fastest map, adaptation of game play, and luck. Example: mid z vs t or p.

New to site. old vgt player.  I just watched about 10 replays each from the top 3 players and that statement about these players being better than prime vgt players is horribly  inaccurate.  These top 3 players wouldve been chewed up by top vgt players in its prime. I dont see the balance between tech, micro and macro that the top vgt players had.  Most of what i see from these players is a tech race to counter the other player and whoever gets there first seems to win the game.  Havent seen the strategical approach that prime vgt players executed.



You must have been a pub because you don't know what you're talking about. Put any top VGT player up against GoldSCV, J.H, or xp-hero and they would get destroyed.

Back to the front.

preMier

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2019, 07:50:08 pm »
I would not count Cole out so easily vs Goldscv. Hes proven to be on the same skill level, if not greater than, as J.H or Goldscv. Although, without a doubt, Goldscv and J.H have definitely improved the past season or two having more experience with adapting to our strategies. In terms of raw macro and micro, both J.H and Goldscv are extremely powerful at a level not even seen during prime vgt days. But that isn't everything. Cole is a very talented gamer in terms of wits and understanding the game play. Hes beaten many skilled gamers without using his level of micro or macro but with just pure strategy, understanding his opponents gameplay, and timing. Between J.H, Goldscv, and cole, I think it will come down to the deficiencies in fastest map, adaptation of game play, and luck. Example: mid z vs t or p.

New to site. old vgt player.  I just watched about 10 replays each from the top 3 players and that statement about these players being better than prime vgt players is horribly  inaccurate.  These top 3 players wouldve been chewed up by top vgt players in its prime. I dont see the balance between tech, micro and macro that the top vgt players had.  Most of what i see from these players is a tech race to counter the other player and whoever gets there first seems to win the game.  Havent seen the strategical approach that prime vgt players executed.

Hydra[VcK] came back in UGL and completely unrusted. Cole/Kokanee/Vanz beat him like 90% of the time. In revival of SCD season 19-26 Kelevran and Khai couldnt match up against Cole. Over time xQ.Silence/Tyga and Defjam came close to Cole's level but if you were to make them play 100 games Cole would come out on top 60-40 or better without a doubt. Then in UGL Hardy and Hydra played pretty well but had a bad record or even record against the current UGL top: Cole, Defjam, Tyga, Dawei, Jake/Omni, Kon, Matt(only on p).

Then LovelyRabbit, a Korean, hopped over and pretty much dominated barring Cole, Defjam and Tyga. Cole went 50/50 against him, Defjam and Tyga about 45/55 or 40/60. Then Biggame and Uplus came over and they smashed everyone but the before mentioned three. Then UGL ended and SCW started. REAL korean gosus then came over and absolutely destroyed everyone. Korean fastest streamer Shin destroyed people with terrible spots and match up, Korean ex-pro Brain/Sea.kh beat EVERYONE in 10 minutes or less going for retarded aggressive builds, even Defjam, Tyga and Hardy got smoked. He was on a level not even Quang in his peak or at his max potential could win a series against on BW.

Then there's Koreans like Thanks.. who is one of the lesser Koreans but still an absolute monster. J.H. who is currently the best player in SCW. Cole and GoldSCV sligtly behind on him, GoldSCV slightly better than Cole but barely.  The micro and multitasking and specificity of focus and build the koreans have is on another level to the point everyone is FORCED to adapt or copy things if they want to keep up.

Recovery

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2019, 09:29:08 pm »
All of that seems pretty accurate except where are the reps of Cole vs hydra or kelevran? I know he beat khai and hardy. Dinko aka gohan was also a beast in his prime beating an untrusted kelevran in a series where he was mid z and beating hydra fairly easily. Monte and evil should be part of that list too. Monte beat hardy and hydra in every series they had. Evil has beaten defjam in series.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 09:37:25 pm by Recovery »

preMier

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2019, 05:10:15 am »
All of that seems pretty accurate except where are the reps of Cole vs hydra or kelevran? I know he beat khai and hardy. Dinko aka gohan was also a beast in his prime beating an untrusted kelevran in a series where he was mid z and beating hydra fairly easily. Monte and evil should be part of that list too. Monte beat hardy and hydra in every series they had. Evil has beaten defjam in series.
IIRC Hydra & Kelevran sets were played off season. But that's something I've heard said from multiple people. I assume it to be true but I honestly don't know how true. I do know Hydra became significantly worse after his Map hack got detected in UGL.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 05:18:36 am by preMier »

TealSilverSteal

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2019, 05:27:21 am »
Premier, you have to put into consideriation that these koreans to this as a kulture.. I am not going any excuses here but we will never be able to keep up with them if ur not geniuin puttin more 5-6 hours of high level competition. If VGT was still active during its prime until now im sure that the koreans wouldnt have an easy task infront of them. With that being said. The koreans gift are Micro/macro. Why do you think that Blizzard made sc2 so "easy" compared to sc/bw? Exactly.......  Nowhere in history has a forgeriner such as Serral beatin koreans on an ongoing slaught.

preMier

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Re: Season Tournament and the future of SCW
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2019, 05:36:42 am »
Premier, you have to put into consideriation that these koreans to this as a kulture.. I am not going any excuses here but we will never be able to keep up with them if ur not geniuin puttin more 5-6 hours of high level competition. If VGT was still active during its prime until now im sure that the koreans wouldnt have an easy task infront of them. With that being said. The koreans gift are Micro/macro. Why do you think that Blizzard made sc2 so "easy" compared to sc/bw? Exactly.......  Nowhere in history has a forgeriner such as Serral beatin koreans on an ongoing slaught.

I am putting that into consideration and you're right. I still think Korean peak is higher than Foreign peak even if ideal circumstances are met. But maybe I am wrong. And you're right about SC2. They made it a lot easier for foreigners to succeed in that than it is in BW.

 

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